OK.....here is the predicate. I want to use the collective knowledge here as I set about to build a set of pipes. I am not in a hurry as this is meant to be a recreational activity for me. But as I head down the path I want to use all of your knowledge to shorten the learning curve. I want to start with the bellows.
I have seen webpages for folks that only build bellows. These claim to have advantages over the run of the mill bellows. I am not sure what those advantages would be, but I would think they would have to do with the non return valve, the size of the bellows, and padding on the board.
So, if you could build the worlds finest bellows for the UP's, what features would it include? What methods of construction would you use? Any tricks? How about size considerations? What would you NOT want to include? What problems can I expect?
I hope this is a very involved discussion. I will start another thread on the next component when we have pretty well exhausted this one.
Thanks, in advance, for your input.
bellows building
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Pat Cannady
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Dionys
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I have to second that. A well-padded set of bellows makes a lot of difference.
One thing I appreciate on my Britton bellows is that instead of being buckle-on-the-end straps, he has the buckle/holes in the middle of the straps and on the end is a wire/buckle-loop that simply snaps under a little brass hook on the bellows. It saves a tiny bit of time, makes the whole strapping-on process simple and you never have to adjust the length of the strap unless your girth grows.
The hinge at is also key for smooth strokes. Look at other designs to see which you like the best and then adapt it for your bellows.
Dionys
One thing I appreciate on my Britton bellows is that instead of being buckle-on-the-end straps, he has the buckle/holes in the middle of the straps and on the end is a wire/buckle-loop that simply snaps under a little brass hook on the bellows. It saves a tiny bit of time, makes the whole strapping-on process simple and you never have to adjust the length of the strap unless your girth grows.
The hinge at is also key for smooth strokes. Look at other designs to see which you like the best and then adapt it for your bellows.
Dionys
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Pat Cannady
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Tony
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I have 3 bellows by different makers.
Bellows A:
Traditional shape and design. 3/4" thick solid oak clappers. Soft leather folded and tacked to the clappers. Leather hinge. 3/8" wide elbow strap 3/4" wide belt both retained by leather straps held with brass squares and brass tacks. Inlet is wood w/ leather flap. Outlet tube is leather with wood end fitting and traditional leather stop valve
I feel the oak is too heavy as I'm constantly reminded of this when playing. The elbow strap is too thin and shows signs of stretching. The leather hinge and strap supports stretched to the point that I took them to the shoemaker and had them replaced with thicker leather. The leather connecting tube is easily choked off when I move around so I placed some flexable tube inside to keep it from collapsing. They are airtight, reliable (but not efficient) and lacking in comfort.
Bellows B:
Traditional shape and design. Lightweight wooden clappers (possibly soft maple) painted black. Soft leather folded and tacked. Thick leather hinge. Thick leather waist belt and 3/4" arm strap screwed to clappers with leather over foam padding nailed to clappers. Inlet is plastic w/ leather flap. Outlet is a thick black rubber hose w/ metal ends. Traditional leather stop valve.
This unit pumps effortlessly (almost too light) considering the thickness of the elbow strap. The folded leather is a bit 'puffy' but puts out a good amount of air and has no leaks. The rubber hose (automotive) is very thick walled and doesn't easily flex. It plugs into a hole in the clapper... something that may be an area of wear in the future. Not significant as the fitting can be wrapped with more hemp.
Bellows C:
Geometric shape (no rounded corners) but traditional design. Lightweight wooden clappers. Heavy leather hinge. Stiff heavy leather folded and tacked to the clappers. Delrin inlet fitting. Outlet hose is thin wall automotive, press fit to brass attached to clapper. Elbow strap is 1/2" wide suede screwed to clappers with ring on end for hanging.
The leather, due to it's thickness doesn't close down completely. It may need a longer break-in period. It pumps well has good balance and is airtight. The stop valve is unique (to the other designs) in that, it's not exposed but retained in a plastic unit that reacts quickly. I added a thin layer of black foam as arm padding. This was tucked under the strap.
Favorite?
Bellows C... however I prefer the belt/strap retainers design from bellows A, because it's easier making adjustments. Placement of the buckle can be easily adjusted using this system.
Bellows A:
Traditional shape and design. 3/4" thick solid oak clappers. Soft leather folded and tacked to the clappers. Leather hinge. 3/8" wide elbow strap 3/4" wide belt both retained by leather straps held with brass squares and brass tacks. Inlet is wood w/ leather flap. Outlet tube is leather with wood end fitting and traditional leather stop valve
I feel the oak is too heavy as I'm constantly reminded of this when playing. The elbow strap is too thin and shows signs of stretching. The leather hinge and strap supports stretched to the point that I took them to the shoemaker and had them replaced with thicker leather. The leather connecting tube is easily choked off when I move around so I placed some flexable tube inside to keep it from collapsing. They are airtight, reliable (but not efficient) and lacking in comfort.
Bellows B:
Traditional shape and design. Lightweight wooden clappers (possibly soft maple) painted black. Soft leather folded and tacked. Thick leather hinge. Thick leather waist belt and 3/4" arm strap screwed to clappers with leather over foam padding nailed to clappers. Inlet is plastic w/ leather flap. Outlet is a thick black rubber hose w/ metal ends. Traditional leather stop valve.
This unit pumps effortlessly (almost too light) considering the thickness of the elbow strap. The folded leather is a bit 'puffy' but puts out a good amount of air and has no leaks. The rubber hose (automotive) is very thick walled and doesn't easily flex. It plugs into a hole in the clapper... something that may be an area of wear in the future. Not significant as the fitting can be wrapped with more hemp.
Bellows C:
Geometric shape (no rounded corners) but traditional design. Lightweight wooden clappers. Heavy leather hinge. Stiff heavy leather folded and tacked to the clappers. Delrin inlet fitting. Outlet hose is thin wall automotive, press fit to brass attached to clapper. Elbow strap is 1/2" wide suede screwed to clappers with ring on end for hanging.
The leather, due to it's thickness doesn't close down completely. It may need a longer break-in period. It pumps well has good balance and is airtight. The stop valve is unique (to the other designs) in that, it's not exposed but retained in a plastic unit that reacts quickly. I added a thin layer of black foam as arm padding. This was tucked under the strap.
Favorite?
Bellows C... however I prefer the belt/strap retainers design from bellows A, because it's easier making adjustments. Placement of the buckle can be easily adjusted using this system.
Hello
I made several bellows and played several bellows by other makers,I agree with all points mention before, there is in my opinion one additional importand point for a good bellows:
Some bellows blow out like a ballon when pressed, for the first 3-5cm you pressed the bellows no air is pumped in the bag. The bellows have a "death way" (in german "toter Stellweg", hope this term is also used in english).
A bellows with a "death way" is very ineffective to play.
You could use very thick leather to avoid this problem, but thick leather is often to stick and unflexible to play.
A better way is to use two thin layer of leather, glued together.
Between this two layers put two half-moon shaped picies of VERY THICK,STIFF Leather( in germany called "Kernleder") . The two half-moon picies made a kind of "joint", made the leather "stiff" but flexible.
Please see the pictures, it is to hard for me to explain it exactly in english.
http://www.geocities.com/magaeb/bellow_CF1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/magaeb/bellow_CF2.jpg
(plese copy the link and open a new window if it dont work, there sometimes trouble with this address)
Another importand thing is the inner diameter of the connection bellows-bag.
Made the inner diameter >= 10mm (I made it 12mm), otherwise there is a to big resistance and hard play.
markus
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: magaeb on 2002-07-18 06:00 ]</font>
I made several bellows and played several bellows by other makers,I agree with all points mention before, there is in my opinion one additional importand point for a good bellows:
Some bellows blow out like a ballon when pressed, for the first 3-5cm you pressed the bellows no air is pumped in the bag. The bellows have a "death way" (in german "toter Stellweg", hope this term is also used in english).
A bellows with a "death way" is very ineffective to play.
You could use very thick leather to avoid this problem, but thick leather is often to stick and unflexible to play.
A better way is to use two thin layer of leather, glued together.
Between this two layers put two half-moon shaped picies of VERY THICK,STIFF Leather( in germany called "Kernleder") . The two half-moon picies made a kind of "joint", made the leather "stiff" but flexible.
Please see the pictures, it is to hard for me to explain it exactly in english.
http://www.geocities.com/magaeb/bellow_CF1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/magaeb/bellow_CF2.jpg
(plese copy the link and open a new window if it dont work, there sometimes trouble with this address)
Another importand thing is the inner diameter of the connection bellows-bag.
Made the inner diameter >= 10mm (I made it 12mm), otherwise there is a to big resistance and hard play.
markus
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: magaeb on 2002-07-18 06:00 ]</font>
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Tony
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Mick,
I'll take pictures and give you measurments of some of the components for each of the bellows so you can get a good visual of their differences. This might take me a week or so to do, but I'll post back here when it's available.
Some other notes... I think bellows B and C are double lined leather.
I'm told if the inlet valve is too small you can hear the air rushing throught it. If it's too large you can then hear the flapper moving. If you try dual inlets (I've only seen one picture of this) you might have trouble getting the flappers to work in unison.
I'll take pictures and give you measurments of some of the components for each of the bellows so you can get a good visual of their differences. This might take me a week or so to do, but I'll post back here when it's available.
Some other notes... I think bellows B and C are double lined leather.
I'm told if the inlet valve is too small you can hear the air rushing throught it. If it's too large you can then hear the flapper moving. If you try dual inlets (I've only seen one picture of this) you might have trouble getting the flappers to work in unison.
mike,
I've built two sets of bellows bases on plans at eric weiswig's smallpipe building site. http://www.bc1.com//ereiswig/ssp_make.htm
The first set was to test the design. The second set was to have a good looking set to power my smallpipes. They are airtight and provide plenty of air. All the parts come from the local hardware store and the scrap bin of a leather store. Total cost was only about $80. The finished product can be seen at http://www.littlemousegraphics.com/bellows_js.jpg
Eric's plans were a good start. The final design was based on what I liked in commercially available bellows. Good luck.
Jim
I've built two sets of bellows bases on plans at eric weiswig's smallpipe building site. http://www.bc1.com//ereiswig/ssp_make.htm
The first set was to test the design. The second set was to have a good looking set to power my smallpipes. They are airtight and provide plenty of air. All the parts come from the local hardware store and the scrap bin of a leather store. Total cost was only about $80. The finished product can be seen at http://www.littlemousegraphics.com/bellows_js.jpg
Eric's plans were a good start. The final design was based on what I liked in commercially available bellows. Good luck.
Jim
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Big Mick
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Great sites, and very nice job!! I like the look of them.
Let me pose a question with regard to size. What are the parameters? In other words, what would make them too small or too large? In my time playing this creature (a little under 2 years) it seems to me that a little more volume would be helpful. Tips, anyone?
Let me pose a question with regard to size. What are the parameters? In other words, what would make them too small or too large? In my time playing this creature (a little under 2 years) it seems to me that a little more volume would be helpful. Tips, anyone?
All the best,
Big Mick Lane
Big Mick Lane
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Tony
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Not sure why... but it's 2022 and I'm mysteriously baack... - Location: Surlyville
Mick,
Pictures are online...
http://www.angar.net/bellows/
Nothing fancy, just a list of images. Use the back arrow of your browser to return to the listing.
Additional notes:
It appears the bellows leather in A is single layer, while B and C are double wall (lined) the inlet of B is blackwood with a staghorn ring.
There's talk on another forum about the clip-on bellows straps... does anyone have one of this fashion and can you supply pictures ??
Pictures are online...
http://www.angar.net/bellows/
Nothing fancy, just a list of images. Use the back arrow of your browser to return to the listing.
Additional notes:
It appears the bellows leather in A is single layer, while B and C are double wall (lined) the inlet of B is blackwood with a staghorn ring.
There's talk on another forum about the clip-on bellows straps... does anyone have one of this fashion and can you supply pictures ??
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Big Mick
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Thanks very much for those pics. I haven't been able to look at all of them yet, but I really like what I see.
I would like to echo the request for the clip on strap. Anyone have pic's?
I have also noted that some pictures I have seen seem to indicate a doubled bellows arm strap, one above the elbow and one below. Can any among you tell me more about this? Is it about taking up the slack that sometimes occurs?
I would like to echo the request for the clip on strap. Anyone have pic's?
I have also noted that some pictures I have seen seem to indicate a doubled bellows arm strap, one above the elbow and one below. Can any among you tell me more about this? Is it about taking up the slack that sometimes occurs?
All the best,
Big Mick Lane
Big Mick Lane
Choose your leather carefully!!!
I did not pay attention to the term "Chrome Tanned" leather. I thought I would save myself $30 and buy a closeout special of some nice looking material. It turns out that Chrome Tan means that there is a layer of plastic applied to the leather. This makes it Air tight as opposed to porous. How did I discover my leaky problem? Well, My bag seemed to be made correctly. I couldn't hear any leaking and yet it would not hold air. I even used Barge cement. I had to take a sample of my leather and wet it, then blow air through it with my air compressor to find out that it blew tiny bubbles through the skin. Anyone want to buy some slightly used leather?
PS: You should be able to put quite a bit of pressure on a well made bag and it should not leak air before 30 seconds is up. This would be true before using any kind of Seasoning. A glue seam works fine even without stitching. An example of this is Davy Spillane's bag in River Dance.
I did not pay attention to the term "Chrome Tanned" leather. I thought I would save myself $30 and buy a closeout special of some nice looking material. It turns out that Chrome Tan means that there is a layer of plastic applied to the leather. This makes it Air tight as opposed to porous. How did I discover my leaky problem? Well, My bag seemed to be made correctly. I couldn't hear any leaking and yet it would not hold air. I even used Barge cement. I had to take a sample of my leather and wet it, then blow air through it with my air compressor to find out that it blew tiny bubbles through the skin. Anyone want to buy some slightly used leather?
PS: You should be able to put quite a bit of pressure on a well made bag and it should not leak air before 30 seconds is up. This would be true before using any kind of Seasoning. A glue seam works fine even without stitching. An example of this is Davy Spillane's bag in River Dance.