Help Identifying 'keyed recorder'

[Stella]

Last night I was at my sister-in-law's place playing my newest whistle and her husband brought out his grandfather's 'flute' (in his words). I am just trying to figure out what it was.
It was wooden and somewhere between the length of a recorder and a flute, it is OLD and probably Dutch, it does not flare out at the base or anyhting. It had six top holes and two thumb holes, as well as various metal keys. It was not played like a flute, but has a strange mouthpiece....lets see if I can describe this....
The body breaks into two pieces half way along. Finger holes below break and fipple above. The blade/ramp is half way along the mouthpiece half (ie quarter way down the whole instrument) and the ramp was very long. At the top, the actual part you put your lips on was a thin rectangular shape, which seemed separate from the body, fitted in somehow, and the actual hole was not a long slit, but a narrow drilled ROUND HOLE!
Between this mouthpiece and the blade/ramp was a very large cylindrical chamber, and the air seemed to be aimed at the blade by a dowel with a flattened topjammed into the end of the chamber.

This is probably an awful description...I could easily draw a pic of this and scan it, if someone would want me to email this to them or tell me how to post it to the forum.
I would love to know what this weird insrtument was!
Stella

[Walden]

I think you describe a flageolet. They were keyed, had two thumbholes, and you blew in through a pipe at top.

However, there were keyed versions of the recorder in the 19th and early 20th Century. I quote from <I>Instrument of Torture or Instrument of Music?</i> by Nicholas S. Lander:

<B>The csakan, in effect a keyed recorder, first appeared around 1807 in Budapest and was probably the invention of Anton Heberle. Initially the instrument was equipped with a d# key (as on the older transverse flute) and had a range of 2 octaves and a fifth corresponding to the notation c'-g''' but sounding ab'-eb'''', which is to say that the csakan was considered a transposing instrument in ab. By 1815 up to 13 keys might be added, along with a tuning-slide and a device for narrowing the thumb-hole. By ca 1820, instrument manufacturers provided csakan modelled after other woodwind such as the oboe and clarinet. Such csakans had keys for g#, f, f#, bb, a b/c trill key, a low d# and a low c# ... Some csakans had up to ten keys and a range extending to a sounding g' thanks to an extended key. Some csakans featured a narrow thumb-hole, which could be left open for overblowing. A number of manufacturers made csakans and flûtes douces, amongst them Hell, Kämpffe, Stephan Koch, Nielson, Franz Schöllnast, Johann Ziegler and Julies Heinrich Zimmermann. Tutors for the instrument were published by Koehler, Koch, Krähmer and Barth, amongst others.

The csakan continued to be played until the turn of the 20th century, as evidenced by instruments by Koehler (1880), Barth (1910), by which time it had become an instrument in C, with or without keys. An 1899 catalogue by the Leipzig instrument-maker Julius Heinrich Zimmermann advertises csakans without keys, with one key and with six keys (see Catalogue; repr. Reyne 1987: 5; Betz 1992: 48, fig. 26). A Zimmerman catalogue from 1905 (repr. Betz 1992: 92, fig. 34) lists a whole consort of SATB Blockflöten in a variety of keys as follows: soprano (C or D), alto (G, F, E or D), tenor (C or A), Bass (G, F, E, D or C). </b>

[Walden]

<font size=7>Flageolets</font>

[peeplj]

I have read of a few Boehm-system recorders which were made, but it seems more likely (especially with the round moutpiece you mention) that it was indeed a flageolet.

I believe Alba makes modern (keyless) flageolets in the old design as well as their whistle line.

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

[peeplj]

(edited by James to remove an unintended double posting...sorry bout that!)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: peeplj on 2002-10-06 08:05 ]</font>

[Stella]

Thanks guys! That is exactly it!! (Thanks for the pics Walden)
How different is the Czakan? Does anyone have a pic?

Also, this is HORRIFIC! This beautiful instrument is sitting unknown and uncared for in the back of this guy's wardrobe for the last zillion years. Being a wooden instrument I fear for it's safety. Is it at risk of damage? Is there something I could suggest to him to care for it? It is, after all, the only thing he has of his grandfather.
Stella

Edit: Also, are they easy/possible to learn how to play? It is not exactly in working order right now, the strange dowl in the pipe does not seem to be in the right place and it squeeks. Would instrument repairers know what to do with it?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Stella on 2002-10-06 17:40 ]</font>

[Daniel_Bingamon]

The block has probably shift from being in a hot dry attic. A competent recorder repair person would be able to fix it. You have take this up with Dave Migoya on the Flute Forum, he's very familiar with antiques.

[Walden]

On 2002-10-06 17:39, Stella wrote:
How different is the Czakan? . . . Also, are they easy/possible to learn how to play?

There is an article with a little info on csakan and flageolet in this PDF file, which I think you will find interesting: http://www.mwemm.com/arta/info/artafacts_0601.pdf

_________________
<a href="http://www.boomspeed.com/walden/index.h ... igline.jpg[/img]</a><font color="white">

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Walden on 2002-10-08 12:24 ]</font>

[Wist]

I have read
...
I believe Alba makes modern (keyless) flageolets in the old design as well as their whistle line.

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

What you explain make me believe it is a FRENCH FLAGEOLET, which has been used in Europe between 16 & 19 th century.

It is pretty different from (modern) (irish) flageolet in having 2 thumb holes, and being blown through a pipe, this generaly looking as the double reed of an oboe (but it is a pipe).

[Thomas-Hastay]

Wist is "the most correct" in this case. The French Flageolet is distinct from the English by the use of 2 dorsal(rear) thumbholes with 4 (front) toneholes. while the English is similar to a normal Recorder with only 1 thumbhole. The wind chamber above the voicing held a sponge for collecting moisture. Here are some fine English Flageolets by Bainbridge...

http://members.tripod.com/~Music_Treasures/flagcoll.htm

[Zubivka]

Now what about one of our "Irish flageolets" modified to French by an Englishman?

I was really intrigued, last week in Saint Chartier by this friend of Jon Swayne helping him at the booth, who owned and played a full set of Swayne's whistles.
Nothing special so far, except each of his whistles had been modified adding two thumb holes.

Their location is odd, and probably disturbing at first because of the unusual thumb position, but they musically make sense : top hole for G#/Ab, low one for D#/Eb.

Swayne whistles do play a clean cross-fingered xxo xxx G#, as well as half-holed, but try and get a loud, clean, low Eb in the first register of a D whistle...

[selkie]

I have an old one which is in need of repair as it has a nasty crack at present covered with electrical insulating tape. If somebody could point me towards a repairer in the UK, preferably Scotland, I would be grateful. I would like to play it but suspect that the cost of repair would be too much for me to find. I can scan it into paint shop pro but don't know how to get a piccie of it up here. It was sold to me for $30.00 as a recorder/flute. I have since been tolf by a very good recorder expert that it was a flageolet. Mine has an Ivory Beek. Keys aren't sticky etc. But it's very quiet which I suspect is because the cracks aren't completely sealed.