STILL FOR SALE - assorted band Flutes & Piccolos

[jemtheflute]

FOR SALE - ASSORTED BAND FLUTES & PICCOLOS - see posts down thread.

Original 4 D Flutes now ALL SOLD (Wooden & Seery keyless & German 1-key and 8-key)

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NEW PHOTOS & CLIPS ADDED German 8-key 4:10:07. German 1-key 30:10:07. Seery Delrin Pratten 11:12:07.

I currently have the following second hand flutes available for sale. They are all in ready to play, excellent condition. I have not had time recently to do full detailed written descriptions and photo sets or sound samples for them as I have done previously. I’m working on it, but I need to try to shift them! In the meantime, if anyone is interested in one (or more) of them, I’ll try to answer any general or technical questions here, but please p.m. me for any other details, e.g. requests for specific pics/sounds or regarding terms and conditions of sale etc.
Personal Messages ONLY if you want to buy. (Board policy!) Thanks.

1.SOLD (Swapped) @ 22:4:2008 A Seery keyless Pratten style model in Delrin polymer, with original wooden, baize lined case. Pristine condition, little used. Grand player.


Asking price £305 GBP.

N.B. NEW SOUND CLIPS ADDEDBELOW @ 11:12:07



2.SOLD @ 5:10:2007 An anonymous modern keyless Pratten style flute in unknown dark hardwood (with interesting pale, swirly veining in the head), with leatherette, plush lined case.


Asking price £170 GBP.

Excellent condition. No cracks or dings. Fully lined head. Embouchure tweaked by me (was very large anyway, but lacked focus). Intonation is good, though slightly less so than the Seery, but if anything this one beats the Seery for power and tone. Bottom D was slightly sharp, but a little beeswax in the tone-hole cured that.

N.B. NEW PICS & CLIPS BELOW



3.SOLD @ 22:11:2007 An anonymous, probably late C19th, probably German, 1 key, medium holed flute in reddish-brown hardwood, possibly cocuswood. No case, but I can supply one at extra cost.


Asking price £170 GBP.

EDIT: New sound clip added @ 30:10:07 Paddy's Trip to Scotland/Dinky Dorian's/The Shetland Fiddler

Came to me from Canada. No marks save for “H.P.” stamped on the barrel and foot, but this is NOT a High Pitch flute. It plays well at A = 440Hz with the slide open about 10-15mm. The intonation is reasonable for a C19th flute (not too flat a low D but a tendency to sharpness around G and A in the second octave) and the tone is free and strong. This flute can rival the Seery for volume. Most of the baroque cross fingerings work quite well for accidentals, even in the bottom octave. Beautiful red hardwood, presumably cocus, with lovely grain. All metal parts are German Silver (cupro-nickel) or Brass. Fully lined head. The head and barrel were both split and have been stripped out, repaired and the lining tubes refitted after the bore was widened to admit them without stress. The head crack was not through the embouchure and is now scarcely discernible. I have judiciously modified the embouchure, which was rather scruffy. The cork stopper, pad and joint lapping (thread) are new. Fully cleaned and oiled. Typical German spun metal end cap, but cork adjusting mechanism missing. All repairs by myself. A very attractive little flute with a big sound - a real bargain in playability terms.


4.SOLD - Sale Confirmed @ 14:11:07 An anonymous, late C19th or early C20th, 8 key, small/medium holed flute in Cocuswood (I think, but could be Grenadilla/Blackwood), probably German. No case, but I can supply one at extra cost.


Asking price £320 GBP.

In superb condition - no cracks at all, one scratch near L1/C# tone hole, otherwise cosmetically excellent. No maker’s marks at all. Plays well at A=440 Hz with the slide open about 12mm. (“Sounding length” with slide closed 582mm.) Good intonation if proper vented simple system fingerings used. Plays full 3 octaves from low C readily with even sound. Strong, rich low register when you find the sweet spot, especially good low D. All metal parts are German Silver (cupro-nickel). Fully lined head, cork stopper with adjuster. Two part body (“Rudall style”) and separate foot. Pillar mounted keys, all fully functioning and well adjusted. Typical German spun metal end caps. Fully overhauled by me - cleaned, oiled, repadded, new cork lapping and buffers. Embouchure tweaked by me.
The ideal flute to introduce yourself to keys - the full kit on a stonking wooden flute for the same price as a keyless Seery! This is not a quiet flute - it holds its own fine in a session. It takes a little getting used to to find what it has to offer, but I’d compare it favourably with an Ormiston, for example, and at a quarter of the price for a fully keyed flute, and no wait!

(Edit @ 4:10:07) DEMO CLIP ADDED (incl. Scales, Reel: The Gooseberry Bush)


I’m willing to sell and despatch to most places worldwide - all costs thereof to be borne by the purchaser in addition to the quoted (or negotiated) price of the instrument(s) - again, p.m. me for details.

I also have some piccolos and Bb and F band flutes (“fifes”) ready to go, if anyone is interested. Just ask.

Interested parties, please p.m. me. Include your direct e-address and I’ll get back to you asap. Thanks.

Happy tootling………

[jim stone]

bump

[jemtheflute]

Bump - just to let people know the German 8-key is provisionally sold and going out on trial - I'll remove it if/when sale is confirmed if the prospective buyer is happy with it. I do have some more 8-keyers awaiting refurbishment - to be posted in due course.

[Henke]

Just a question: The anonimous Pratten style keyless with home tweaked embouchure, would it work as well played lefty?

[jemtheflute]

Just a question: The anonimous Pratten style keyless with home tweaked embouchure, would it work as well played lefty?

Hi. I've just got it out to check - of course I can't play leftie, but I can test the embouchure. It sounds just as meaty and responsive to me either way round. The main thing I did to it was to undercut it - as it came to me it was simply vertical/parallel sided and not a very even shape either. It played, but no real oomph or response. It is much better now! I undercut it pretty symmetrically. Will try do some sound samples both ways round.....

[jim stone]

Jem, will you please say what undercutting accomplishes
and why? Inquiring minds, etc....

[jemtheflute]

SOLD
OK, here are some clips of the Anonymous Pratten style keyless. First are some simple notes and arpeggios to demonstrate the sound, R handed first, then L handed - hence the inaccuracies of fingering!!!!! Then there are two short clips of me playing it for real - R handed, of course. Disclaimer - I apologise for any deficiencies in the playing - these were recorded hastily on an unfamiliar instrument with no proper warm up. I hope they don’t do an injustice to the sound of the flute. Reels and slip jig.


I have also taken some close up pics of the embouchure, straight on and oblique, from both L and R handed players’ perspectives. Again, done hastily, so focus is best I could do on my phonecam in a rush, but I think they’ll serve.









You can also see rather nicely in these the interesting grain/coloration of the timber. The barrel is similar, but the rest of the flute more uniformly near-black. Anyone have any ideas about the wood?

I hope these help.

[jemtheflute]

Jem, will you please say what undercutting accomplishes
and why? Inquiring minds, etc....

Jim, I’m afraid you’ve found a hole in my knowledge. (One of the many!) We need a proper explication by Terry or Hammy or Jon C or Casey et al - or all of them - that would be great. Someone want to start a “how to cut a good embouchure” thread?

I know undercut improves the tone production, chiefly by reducing drag and turbulence in the split airstream, in a similar way to the cut of the labium of a fipple-flute. I think it can also have some effect on tuning/intonation, as can basic embouchure size in relation to length and diameter of bore. Since most of the sound comes out at the embouchure, its size and conformation must also affect that. I have not read up on it scientifically and I don’t pretend to take a scientific, measured (literally) approach to making or tweaking embouchures.

I’ve mentioned elsewhere that some years ago I had a fairly extensive period of experimenting with poly-tube flutes. If I say so myself, cutting and adjusting embouchures proved to be my main success with them - working empirically from some basic knowledge and from looking at examples, then just doing it by eye, then seeing how they blew and tweaking again etc….. I made some very good sounding ones. I gave up in the end due to the intractable tuning problems of an all cylindrical bore. (More recently I’ve read about the Tipple-Fajardo wedge and keep meaning to have a proper go with that, but, oh but!!! for the time!) I was quite friendly with Chris Wilkes at that time and showed him my efforts. He was kind enough to say he was quite impressed with my embouchures (though not with the rest of the things)!
So, I have some successful experience with embouchure cutting………

My policy when working on these flutes that I am fettling up to sell is that I don’t mess with embouchures that are in good shape, and I would not risk messing with an (undamaged) original embouchure on a high quality period flute or one by a good current maker, should I ever get my hands on such; but I’m not moving in that area financially at present. I have had a couple of flutes from modern makers, the present one being a case in point, the embouchures of which have been pretty crudely made and left rather unfinished. On some of the old German flutes I’ve handled, the embouchures have equally been poorly done originally, or may have sustained some damage. In any case, they are often very small. Whilst that may be how their makers intended them to be, it leaves them with a rather weak and strangled tone - not at all suitable for ITM. If by tweaking the embouchure I can make such flutes serviceable for our type of use, I have no compunction about “interfering” with them. They are not museum pieces in need of unsullied preservation - they are too common for that, even the better quality ones.

My aim is to give these flutes a useful lease of life and make decently playable flutes comparatively cheaply/affordably available to beginner/intermediate level flute players. I think that is a better treatment and use of them than preserving them unplayed and unlikely to be so. Two of the German ones I have done in particular have turned out to be real belters after my treatment, at least in my hands/opinion. They certainly speak a lot more easily and responsively, not to say richly and powerfully than they did before, without any detriment I can discern to their intonation. People will just have to try "my" flutes to see if I am doing a good job. Hopefully I’ll get some feedback in due course.

[jim stone]

Thank you. Helpful.

[jemtheflute]

Just a bump. In case anyone didn't realise, I am open to sensible offers (by p.m.) against my "Asking Prices". Talk to me!

[jim stone]

I also have some piccolos and Bb and F band flutes (“fifes”) ready to go, if anyone is interested. Just ask.

Will you say something about these? Are they very loud?
ARe they in tune?
Are the pitched for the third/fourth octave?
Especially Bb and F. price?

What's a 'band flute'? Thanks

[jemtheflute]

Sorry for slow/tardy responses folks, especially those who have p.m.ed me. I've had a very busy weekend with a gig (chasing fairies in a forest!!!) on Saturday and taxi work all the rest of the weekend, so I've had very little computer time and not much sleep. Catching up now and will respond properly ASAP.

[jemtheflute]

The anonymous keyless with the "swirly" head is now spoken for, pending receipt of payment. SALE FINALISED 5:10:2007

Jim, I will try to get around to answering your queries a couple of posts back...... been up to my ears, not least in correspondence with enquirers about some of these flutes and with the guy trialling the 8-key. Man, you gotta work at this sales lark!

[jemtheflute]

EDIT: NOW SOLD - SALE CONFIRMED @ 14:11:07

NEW PICTURES ADDED BELOW

The first person who took it on trial has decided that it is not what he wants - he wanted to try a keyed flute but found that he did not get on well with the need to vent keys whilst playing, e.g Eb most of the time and an F key for F# and the upper C key for C# as per the standard fingering charts of the era for this kind of flute. Most period flutes do really need that discipline to achieve their best intonation, although many fine ITM players with old keyed flutes ignore the fact quite happily! Modern makers' keyed flutes may have their intonation adjusted to avoid so much venting. In any case, in fast tunes on short notes it is not absolutely necessary. Obviously I am not trying to put anyone off here, just to be fair and to re-iterate the point that I made about fingering in my original description.
The previous prospective buyer has not said that he found the flute itself deficient, but he did not feel he had the commitment or time to practice to learn the necessary adaptations to his playing technique in order to get the best from it or to play it to his own satisfaction. I maintain that it is worth acquiring this technique - it does not detract from a traditional style of playing and, should you proceed later to a higher level antique flute, you will need it. Even many of the modern makers' fully keyed flutes should preferably be played thus. If you are coming from a Boehm background, you will already have the Eb little finger technique, though some other things will be a little stranger than they are for folk coming from a key-less background. I continue to think that, if you want to try shifting to keyed flute, this instrument and others like it represent an economically accessible way to do so compared to prices of new-made or high-end antique keyed flutes. This flute plays a good deal better than my first keyed simple system flute did!

If anyone would like the information in advance, I can send you the fingering chart that I worked out for this specific flute so you can examine what is ideally needed to play it to its best effect. I can also send my Terms of Business document which includes details of the Trial Period I offer. P.M. me with an e-address and I’ll send the bumf over.

Here are some more detailed photos:-

Assembled


Disassembled


Embouchure detail from near side


Head


Upper body


Lower body


Foot


And finally, alongside my Rudall & Rose (top flute) just for comparative illustration.

[jemtheflute]

Time for a bump - trying to out-shameless Mr Stone!