silver flutist switching to wooden flute

[dessinchat]

I have also played silver flute for 5-6 years before switching to a wooden flute, and like Matias, I think that i have learnt a different way to blow. I have now tried a few flutes, not a lot, but I was able to see that i found difficult to play with a Gilles Léhart, and a Stéphane Morvan flutes, though they are excellent flutes. In the other way, i enjoyed more a Sam Murray flute and now I have completely fallen in love of a Folk Flute made by Casey Burns At least, i get a beautiful and strong sound ! I think that it would be a good choice for you too
Nicole

[talasiga]

Hi,

I'm new to this site because I really want to get into Irish music. I love the silver flute, and I haven't bought a wooden irish flute yet. I have pretty small hands, so I was considering the Ergonomic Standard by Casey Burns or the Small-Handed Flute by same.

I have been looking for an irish flute teacher in my town (San Antonio, TX) and cannot find one. Does anyone have any ideas on how to find one? And along the same lines, will it make a huge difference if I take lessons on the silver flute with a classical instructor and then practice the irish flute on my own? In other words, should I do one or the other? Or is it okay to do both?

Thanks for any advice you might have.

Lala

Lala,
This looks like Sarah Allen is playing a Boehm system alto flute
and what I hear is Irish system music:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emdvW9HB1oM

Beautiful isn't it?
I have heard that Joannie Madden plays a Boehm system flute. Check her out.

There are a lot of advantages to mastering a silver, chromatic concert flute. Tis not the instrument but what you do with it that voices it. Of course one flute will never sound like another (even amongst brethren flutes there are differences) but that does not mean they cannot both sound "Irish" or "Indian" or "Klezmer" or whatever you will.

Every flute harbours a Muse.

Yours sincerely,
Tala
(strictly wooden and bamboo and some plastics)

[cadancer]

I really want to get into Irish music. I love the silver flute,

will it make a huge difference if I take lessons on the silver flute with a classical instructor and then practice the irish flute on my own? In other words, should I do one or the other? Or is it okay to do both?

Go for it !!!

1. Get the Wooden Flute Obsession CDs. There are 3. Doc has them for sale (see his post, this thread). If you can't afford all three, just get one. I like the #2 the best (so far). Track #5 is *fabulous*.

2. The fastest way to learn Irish flute is to immerse yourself in it. However, who cares? Do what you want.

I have played Bulgarian kaval (end-blown shephard's flute) for many years and decided to start playing Irish music a few months ago. Believe me, the embouchers are very, very different. As far as I am concerned, it is a process. Be happy with whatever process you choose and you will have a great time!

Best wishes,

John

[coupedefleur]

Another possible path would be to start playing whistle before going to wood flute. The idea behind this is that playing an instrument that's less like the one you're currently playing will encourage you to get the style in your head and fingers instead of playing the wood flute just like you do the silver one. It would also be difficult to use your breath and vibrato the same on whistle, and that might be an asset when starting wood flute.

There are some first-rate whistle lessons on-line and instruments are pretty darn inexpensive.

[jazzman]

Hi, I've played classical and jazz flute for over 30 years and began playing wood/Irish flute last year so this reflects my opinion thus far.

Sound: As most Irish/folk flute playing is played in lower registers, I find that I have to spread my embouchure to fill the flute and get depth in the low notes (below G). It really depends on the instrument, but I find the folk wood flutes to be very different than the silver Boehm, and each individual flute has its own characteristics.

Pitch...most current flutes are pitched at A=440 and you should absolutely have a flute with a tuning slide.

Flutes...avoid at all costs Pakistani flutes...a beginner flute will cost you upwards of $300, an intermediate above $500 and more. You're paying for response, sound and intonation and it is worth every penny.

Style...teachers are fine, books are good, listening is critical. There is a range of exceptional flute players..buy their CDs..listen to a tune you like over and over...play it slowly first and just the basic melody notes, then faster adding the ornamentals as you can handle them. I personally learn to play one tune before moving onto the next. I find listening to eb the most important step in learning to play Irish (in fact, any) music.

Keys vs Non-Keyed...90% of the body of literature can be played without keys...and I just traded in my non-keyed for a keyed flute and am glad I did. Personal preference though.

Fun...have it...it's music, fun to play with others, fun to play by your self...if it isn't fun you're doing something very wrong.

[Lala]

Tala, that was a cool video of Sarah Allen. Yes, her playing sounds very Irish. And the whistle player was awsome.

I actually did get myself a tin whistle to start on since it is much more cost effective to start learning the fingering on the tin whistle. You really have to blow a lot softer with a tin whistle than the flute, so that takes some getting used to. But I love it.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I actually had not gotten an e-mail from this forum for a long time, so I did not know that there were any recent replies to this inquiry.

If my new dogs and my new job will give me some more time to play around, I'll practice some more and definitely get the CD you mentioned John. Thanks a lot everyone.

Tralalalala.

Lala

[sbhikes]

Wow, Sarah Allen's flute is huge. That must be an alto flute.

I got a silver flute repaired the same day as my wooden flute arrived. I am not an expert on it, although I did take a year of lessons when I was 16. I have forgotten a lot, but some is coming back. I want to be able to play both, but I keep gravitating to the wooden flute. I think the keys of the silver flute feel clunky compared to the clean, keyless whistle and flute.

I bought a whistle while I was waiting for my wooden flute because the wait can be long if your flute is being made for you. Now that my flute is here, I much prefer playing it than the whistle. The sound is just so beautiful and there is something about not having a fipple in my way that I prefer. If you really want to play flute, I wouldn't settle for whistle.

I would really like to play Irish music on my silver flute, too. I know that it can be done. Even Grey Larsen spends time in his book on the silver flute. He says that it is actually in keeping with the tradition because traditionally, wooden flutes were likely chosen due to cost when the Boehm flute was adopted and musicians let go of their wooden flutes. Nowadays it is the silver flute that is cheap.

There is so much to learn and so many things to experience and so little time to do it.

[talasiga]

Wow, Sarah Allen's flute is huge. That must be an alto flute.

.......

Well thats how it looked to me a few of posts ago.

[bepoq]

Finnegan's playing is extraordinary isn't it? But when they start flying on the reel, notice that Sara is no longer playing the full reel on the big flute, but playing an accompanying rhythm effect - even when she comes back in with the tune toward the end - no rolls, crans, etc (triplets and tonguing, yes) There is no doubt that Irish music can be played on a boehm flute, as people have pointed out, Joannie Madden manages it very well - although it might be pointed out that she has been perfecting the Irish style on it since she was given a very good boehm flute at a time when wooden models were not exactly thick on the ground the way they are now - I think she said she was ten or eleven. The last time I spoke to her about it she made some noises about wishing to switch over sometimes herself - although she was trying out a new Olwell at that second, so maybe it is not indicative of her general thought on the matter. Among the old boys, Michael Preston of the famous Sligo family also plays one now. And there are others. Yet, I think that few of them would suggest beginning to have a go at Irish music planning to play the silver flute. For many reasons - timbre (yes I know you can go looking for it on the silver flute), complex ornamentation (double cut rolls, crans, etc.) the wooden flute lends itself better to Irish music than does the boehm model. Tom Doorley of Danu, equally adept at both types of flute, never plays Irish on the boehm flute which I think is telling. One of my current students, an international competition winner on the silver flute, went searching for a wooden flute before she decided to ask me for lessons. If you really plan to jump into this, I'd play the whistle until you can grab yourself a goodish keyless wooden flute such as one of Martin Doyle's. As to playing both, I would, if you like both sorts of music - just bear in mind that they are different things with different ethos, aesthetics, arenas, approaches, ways of learning, values, etc. and go to it.

[ChrisCracknell]

I play both, Boehm and Simple system. I started on Boehm playing other stuff, then started trying to play the Irish and Scottish traditional stuff on Boehm, then I moved to simple system flute for most of the traditional stuff. I now play both, but tend to split into specific flutes for specific music. i.e. all the reels and jigs etc get played on the the wooden flutes. Classical on the Boehm flute. Klezmer, etc. on whichever flute I can manage on. And Airs often get learnt on both. (I have thumb holes for C Natural on my wooden flutes which makes switching between the two a lot easier.)

Embouchure is a bit different on the wooden flute, but if you experiment you will find it and anyway, the embouchure varies on Boehm flute too if you want to vary the tone colour. Ornamentation just doesn't work right for me on the Boehm flute, even with open keys. Or at least, it doesn't work "the same"... Do expect to spend quite a lot of time just working on the tone quality separately for both types of flute.

Learning tin whistle is a matter of taste. If you learn the wooden fltue you'll be able to play tin whistle without even trying. It doesn't work in the other direction. I would tend to concentrate on the flute and save the whistle for bad lip days or when the swine in a session start something in a really awkward key.

Chris.

[cocusflute]

Flook bobble-head music isn't Irish music. Not by a long shot.
Can you imagine a set danced to this stuff?
I'm not saying it's good or bad-- just that it isn't ITM.

And this: "If you learn the wooden fltue you'll be able to play tin whistle without even trying. It doesn't work in the other direction." Isn't true. There is some crossover, but it's like the mandolin and the fiddle. Apparent similarities shouldn't be allowed to mask the differences between the instruments.

[Jon C.]

Flook bobble-head music isn't Irish music. Not by a long shot.
Can you imagine a set danced to this stuff?
I'm not saying it's good or bad-- just that it isn't ITM.

And this: "If you learn the wooden fltue you'll be able to play tin whistle without even trying. It doesn't work in the other direction." Isn't true. There is some crossover, but it's like the mandolin and the fiddle. Apparent similarities shouldn't be allowed to mask the differences between the instruments.

"Bobble head music" You crack me up!
Andrew would be proud of you!

[bepoq]

Bobble head music? Not Irish - not by a long shot?

That description sounds not good at any rate, cocus. For all that I don' t think that Sara's flute playing on the big silver flute is traditional Irish flute style in this example (as compared to solo trad Irish playing), and for all that Flook is is not my thing by and large, I would argue that the group as a whole is traditional Irish music in one of its newer forms or examples. The Irish music tradition's bounds are not fixed and they are certainly not circumscribed by what you might dance a set to. They never were. It is also not frozen, but changeable as it lives. While I suppose there are bounds, they vary from perspective to perspective and to some extent with time, region, generation. The pure drop mob (and I tend to drift that direction actually) don't like it - the music produced by this sort of pushing of at the edge of the tradition - and they serve the tradition thus by keeping it anchored. The lads that push things make sure that the tradition does not stagnate. I am frequently not mad about their stuff and would rather listen to Packie Duignan and Seamus Horan, but I wouldn't declare them outside the tradition on that basis. Where do you think Finnegan got his music?

Dance a set to Tommy Potts - say, off the Liffey Banks recording. If you were to answer me that you could dance to him if he were playing for dancers, I would agree but answer that the same is true for Finnegan and co.

Traditional - no guitar - bouzouki - piano - banjo - eight keyed flute - concert playing, pub sessions, etc. etc. - how far back do you want to go?

Planxty out, Lunasa definitely out, Danu, Niall Vallely etc. etc. etc.

[ChrisCracknell]

And as far as I'm concerned, any flute player can play the tin whistle with a short period of getting used to where the holes are and what breath pressure is needed. Or, put it another way, do you know any Flute player (Wooden that is) who cannot play the whistle?

Playing the whistle like Mary Bergin, that is another thing entirely, but then, how many flute players play like Matt Molloy?

Chris

[G1]

Input from the peanut gallery:

The techniques used on whistle would be (I think) best described as being somewhere between simple system and Boehm flute. There are tonguing and trills used for the whistle that are frowned upon in ITM flute playing. Opinion or observation?

History shows that music (or anything, really) that does not change with the times fades into obscurity along with its cronies. Irish music has certainly changed over the years (I live in the US and have only been listening to ITM since the '60s, so maybe I have a slanted perspective - or is that slainte?).

While the newer Irish influenced musics may not be ITM; they have brought many to ITM - and continue to greatly add to its survival. My own writings (acoustic music) have been heavily influenced by ITM, although I am certainly not an ITM player; since I play what I write and work to that end.

But may the hard working ITM players and enthusiasts be blessed; they are the ones advancing the core music and techniques - I don't know where we'd be without them!

Rough cut:
http://www.virtualmusician.net/moosemed ... 0Dhuit.mp3
Bobble?
http://www.virtualmusician.net/moosemed ... ective.mp3
Please excuse the politically incorrect non-ITM share; you may get a chuckle out of Retrospective. Sonas!

FYI - I am a long-time avid reader of this forum and have great respect for the information and opinions posted here - you are my teachers. Thank you!