Making Water Weasel-like Whistles

Guidus · Post by **Guidus** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:39 am

(This message is posted to both thesession and Chiff&Fipple)

Hello everybody.

Last year, we lost Glenn Schultz and his top-notch whistles. I never owned one, but I read countless times how good they were.

About the same time Glenn passed away, I published my do-it-yourself page on how to make PVC whistles - the 'Low-Tech Whistle' page. Since then I've received a lot of positive feedback; Wandering Whistler wrote a good review, and I got enthusiastic words from kind people to whom I sent my whistles.

All of this was very rewarding. I was particularly struck when somebody pointed out that the 'stout' (loud) LTW reminded them of the Water Weasel, Glenn's PVC whistle. It shouldn't be too surprising, since the Water Weasel and the LTW are made of almost identical PVC pipe.

Glenn left an empty niche. I think it could be a good idea if I adjusted the backpressure and volume of my 'stout' whistle to match that of Water Weasels. I don't believe the sound would match exactly, but I want to get as close as possible.

I do not claim I'm a great whistlemaker, as Glenn was. Basically, I make whistles because it's fun, but I take this task very seriously. If I succeed, I promise not to label my whistles "Water Weasels" or anything similar, and to sell them at a low price, i.e. the price of a Susato or less. My goal is make good, inexpensive, and enjoyable hand-made instruments. I don't expect to be overwhelmed by requests anyway, there are lots of fine whistles around.

To run my experiment, I need some help from you. I need to borrow a Water Weasel in D. I'd prefer not to buy it, they're rare and better left to people who play them. If a good soul is going to send me his or her Water Weasel, 1) I'll pay for the shipping/insurance, and 2) I'll return the Water Weasel along with a Low-Tech Whistle modeled after it.

Please feel free to comment on this. Thanks in advance, Guidus

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:43 am

Good luck in your endeavor!

Do you have a good, accurate metal lathe? In order to make something close to a WW, you'll need to turn the body part of the tuning slide down to half the tubing diameter, and correspondingly bore out the head part of the slide to match for a snug but smooth fit. You'll have to do similar operations to make the head ferrule. Great accuracy is required.

King Friday · Post by **King Friday** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:01 am

Excellent, I'm glad to hear that. I remember when I last talked to you earlier this summer you told me you were considering it. Unfortunatly I've since parted with my Water Weasel so I can't help you out.

Guidus · Post by **Guidus** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:07 am

No, I don't have a lathe yet.

My experiment consists in adjusting just the mouthpiece parts of my LTW, to verify if the resulting sound can match (or al least be very similar to) that of the Water Weasel. Just out of curiosity, I managed to clone the Dixon Polymer - pointless, but I had an itch to stratch. I want to see if the WW can be a target.

Please note that I'm not trying to make a real WW clone! The basic design and look of Low-Tech Whistles will remain the same - very simple, low-tech and definitely different than the WW. I'd never try to make high-end whistles without proper tools and experience, I'd have to compete with beautiful products like yours

Learning Piper · Post by **Learning Piper** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:13 pm

Best of luck. I look forward to seeing how your endeavor turns out.

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:42 pm

Not quite a Weasel? Maybe call them Ferrets? Otters, as they are like Water Weasels?

Rod

Guidus · Post by **Guidus** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:49 pm

Maybe "polymer rats"

Feadoggie · Post by **Feadoggie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:09 am

I just noticed this post and wanted to reply because it reminded me of a lot of the thoughts I also have had since Glenn Schultz left us.

First I would like to thank Guidus for his site on whistle making. I have been making whistles for some time but really liked the presentation on his site and can attest to the workability of the designs presented. I have made whistles according to his plans in each of the keys he lists and they work well.

Second I would also like to wish Guidus well with his efforts regarding the Water Weasel. There is a world of wisdom in each of Glenn’s whistles. I look forward to seeing the results of your efforts.

Like many here, I was really bummed out when Glenn passed on. I really like Glenn’s whistles, and moreover the craic they spawn when played. After all, to paraphrase a certain cyclist, it’s not about the whistle. I own a couple Thin Weasels and a hand full of Water Weasels and they have always inspired me. I have a Water Weasel in the key A whose head came apart late last year. Worse yet, the collar of the mouthpiece was cracked. Don’t know how I did that. Rather than put it on the shelf in that condition and write it off as a memento of great times, I decided to repair it. I had the tools. I had the time. So I gave it a go. After I cut and bored a new collar I decided to see if I could make a whole head tube. I didn’t want to spoil Glenn’s work by grafting my work to his. You can probably guess the rest. Take a look.

I prefer to think of these as Nach Schultz whistles although (like Rod’s suggestion) they have been called Faucet Ferrets or Ferret Fauxcettes. I have not sold any of these and have preferred to give them to young players who have shown interest in the music. Who knows what will grow from such a seed once planted.

Guidus, I hope you get hold of a Water Weasel. As I said, there is a lot of whistle making wisdom built into each Weasel.

Dennis

Learning Piper · Post by **Learning Piper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:08 pm

Guidus wrote:Maybe "polymer rats"

Just not polymer/water hamsters or gerbils please.

King Friday · Post by **King Friday** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:50 pm

Welcome to the site Dennis. It's not very usual that someone busts out something this cool on their first post. Mine was like "ummmm whistles are cool..." or something along those lines.

Those look awesome though, very impressive.

Tweeto · Post by **Tweeto** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:59 pm

Wow, Dennis, that forth one from the left looks just like African graywood.
I'll take one in the key of "A", please.
I assure you, I am interested in the music, and I'm fairly young.

Guidus · Post by **Guidus** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:29 am

Dennis,

those whistles look awsome. Why didn't you tell us you were making these gems? You really should be selling them. I wonder if my replication quests make sense at this point!

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:05 am

Hey Dennis-- nice work!
I totally agree: there's world of whistlemaking knowledge in each of those Water Weasels. Glenn's ability to take a couple of cents worth of PVC and turn it into a real musical instrument was amazing.
What kind of setup are you working on?

Feadoggie · Post by **Feadoggie** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:27 pm

Thanks for the encouragement folks.

Guidus, I think you should continue your quest. I have sent you a PM with some suggestions on how you may approach things. I still don't know about selling these but my wife keeps asking when I am going to get rid of some. I have a number on the shelf at this point.

Paul, yes, there's a lot to learn from any of Glenn's whistles but the Water Weasel which looks deceptively simple is just as complex as any whistle I have owned in terms of "getting it right". I spent about five years working with spreadsheets and TWCALC (thank you Daniel!) trying to design a CPVC tube from scratch. I was averse to just starting out by copying because I wanted to learn "why" you do things a certain way. The more I read and the more I learned and the more I tweaked my layout, the more the hole size, spacing, etc. came to resemble a Weasel. But beyond the physics, the Weasels sound great and play so well. That's the craft part which I don't think I am anywhere near at this point. I think I still have two holes which are marginally different from the Water Weasel. I defer to Glenn's experience. You know there are summer craft schools for making guitars, building boats and other such areas of interest. We should have one for whistle and flute crafting.

The setup I am using to make these is pretty straightforward. I have a pretty complete woodworking shop in the garage including everything I needed to cut, drill, file and polish whistles. And having retired recently, I have the time to play and work on instruments. I bought one of the seemingly ubiquitous Sieg 7x12 lathes from China. The spindle bore is slightly larger then 5/8" so the CPVC high whistles (Eb, D, C) are a snap to turn. I depend on the steadyrest to handle the larger whistles. The low F and Low D are made in three sections. I modified the steadyrest to be able to do the Low D. The only additional tooling I have invested in is a quick change tool post. That saves a lot of time going from cut to cut.

I have been working with brass and aluminum recently. There is also a bunch of blackwood and cocobolo settling on the shelf waiting for me to acquire some additional skills and tooling. But I don't think I'll stop using the CPVC or PVC any time soon.

Cheers

Dennis

King Friday · Post by **King Friday** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:25 pm

On my WW I could never get over the construction of the labium. I've never seen anything done that perfectly in my life. And thats not done with a machine either! But Dennis if you ever do think about selling one of your whistles please let me know. I'm 17 years old if that gives me any priority.

Same to you Guido. I think I recall you mentioning that you can make low F's now? Let me know.