My nemesis: b - c# - d

[jeeves]

I'm a novice for sure. I'm playing a regular D whistle. This note sequence kills me. I play "b" (one hole covered) then c# (no holes covered!) then high d (all holes covered). I can hardly ever rely on this last note coming out right. I'm lucky I didn't drop the thing with no holes covered, just resting on my thumbs. Then covering all the holes at once it's never quite right. Any tips on how best to play this cleanly?

[anniemcu]

You asked, Jeeves...

A lot of times, the higher D is easier to get cleanly if you leave the top (B)hole uncovered. Try it and see if that doesn't help. It's a common trick used by many, many players.

edited to add: I misssed the part about almost dropping it... I tend to rest my little finger of my right hand below the bottom hole, steadying the whistle throughout my playing... especially needed when playing the C#.

[Cynth]

Yeah, it kills me too.

Two problems here. One, is holding the whistle. Many people also support or stablize, perhaps a better word, the whistle with the pinky of the bottom hand (along with the two thumbs and mouth). That is, the pinky will be lightly lying on top of the whistle instead of being in the air. Some people feel that this restricts one's finger motion. Some people have a pinky that is too short to sit gently on top of the whistle. I have seen it then recommended that one might keep the ring finger of the bottom hand on the bottom note position if it doesn't change the sound of your notes. I think it doesn't change the pitch of my top three notes, but keeping that hole covered does change the quality of them a bit and my pinky reaches so I use that. I think almost everyone has a way of supporting the whistle with a finger in addition to the thumbs even if it is only when C# is played, which would be fine. So you need to figure out fairly promptly what you are going to do about that so you can train yourself and not be dithering around one way and the other for months. Others will be able to explain what they do better than I have.

Problem Two---hitting the high D. Okay, are you saying that you can go from C# to low D and have it sound just right? And that you only have the problem going to high D?

If you can go to lowD just perfectly from C#, then try playing the high D leaving the top hold uncovered. This is an alternate and quite common way of playing high D. It makes it harder to hit the low D by accident. So for low D all holes are covered, for high D all but the top hole are covered.

If getting the holes covered is the problem, which you would have equally going from C# to low D or high D, then all I can say is that it is still a problem for me. It isn't easy and I am quite sure that practice, very slow starting with getting the easier jumps first, is the only way to do it. Stabilizing the whistle will help you a lot with this though, I think.

My high D has a slightly different sound quality than my other notes. I think I can improve this, but it sounds breathier. But my main problem is getting it when coming from a note where most of the holes are uncovered. I'm just not able yet to cover all the notes perfectly and at the exact same time.

Keep your hands and fingers relaxed. Don't pick your fingers up higher than you need to. Keep them resting just above the holes, not waving about in the air so that they have a long way to go to get back to their hole again. Just rest your finger on the hole enough to completely cover it. If the sound is bad, don't press harder, move your finger to the correct spot. This isn't that easy to do, but relaxed fingers are really important.

[Dee Whistler]

I often help the situation with my right hand fingers. Either that is like Cynth said using your right hand ring finger on the bottom hole. I think that does not so much affect to the quality of the sound, of course it depends what kind of whistle one has too.

Then this other way what makes that sequence really easy is having ALL of your right hand fingers (ok, the three middle ones ) covering the holes. So all three bottom holes are covered all the time. This of course affects somewhat to the sound and makes the notes a bit flat, but if playing faster tunes or blowing harder one might not notice any great difference. It is way easier at least.

Antti

[Wombat]

Try playing C# with the D note covered, as others have suggested. Practice going from B to C# played this way. Then practice going from C# to D. Practice until you can make both transitions fluently and very quickly. Then just put them together into a single movement.

[boyd]

Most whistles will allow you to play the c# with the bottom three holes still covered...this is especially handy for playing the b-c#-d triplet but also serves well for slower note sequences.

xooxxx for b
oooxxx for c#
oxxxxx for d.....or xxxxxx

Tongue the b to get a crisper triplet.
c# vibrato in a slow air can be got by using one of the bottom hand fingers,or two...or 3...wavering on the holes. Experiment with your whistle. Or use your diaphragm.

bc#d triplets to be found in this clip in the first half of the tune....its the only triplet used so if you're not sure, just listen for 3 notes in rapid succession...they start the tune off and are repeated at regular intervals:
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... sBoydP.mp3


Boyd

[Wanderer]

A video is worth a thousand words...
http://www.tinwhistler.com/misc/b-c-d.mpg

5 seconds-483K

It's a little dark but hopefully you can see what my fingers are doing.

[Screeeech!!!]

A video is worth a thousand words...
http://www.tinwhistler.com/misc/b-c-d.mpg

5 seconds-483K

It's a little dark but hopefully you can see what my fingers are doing.

You're one of those people whose little finger actually reaches the whistle. Mine don't get anywhere near as they're quite short. When i play i always have at least one finger on one hole.

If i'm playing a b i would have xoo oox , xoo xoo , xoo xxo or xoo xxx. Depending on what note i played before and what note i'm playing after.

So if i were to go b c# D and starting with... xoo oox

then change to c#... ooo oox

then while the c# is playing i would change to... ooo xxx

then change to D... oxx xxx

Always when i go through c# my bottom hand changes from the postition it was in before the c# to where it is needed after while the c# is playing. Same with b as well, usually. This way i'm only focusing on the top hand for the transition to and from b and c# which i find makes the transition much cleaner and also i keep a good hold of the whistle throughout.

[Screeeech!!!]

If i approach the b c# D from playing an e before i would finger it...

xoo xxo

ooo xxo > ooo xxx

oxx xxx

[Wanderer]

You're one of those people whose little finger actually reaches the whistle. Mine don't get anywhere near as they're quite short. When i play i always have at least one finger on one hole.

I'd guess that I'm fairly average in that regard...but I do know a guy with fairly short pinkies. I imagine he'd have a hard time holding the whistle like I do, too.

Obviously, the pinkie part can be switched around to whatever works in a particular situation--people do different stuff. I use the pinkie method only because I think that's what the Bill Ochs book recommended while I was learning (though that just makes it one recommended method--whatever works, ya know).

Any method used will take some thought until it becomes second nature. I can still remember going through a phase where every time my pinkie came down, I was aware of it, my focus went to it, and I screwed up the rest of the tune.

[Screeeech!!!]

Any method used will take some thought until it becomes second nature. I can still remember going through a phase where every time my pinkie came down, I was aware of it, my focus went to it, and I screwed up the rest of the tune.

Agreed. My method mentioned above took me some getting used to, especially changing the bottom hand in the middle of the b or c#, but a few months practice and like you say it becomes second nature.

[anniemcu]

What part of your fingers you use makes a difference too...

... if you use the finger tips of your right hand (usually the lower hand on whistle) , your pinkie is going to be harder to put on the whistle, but if you use the second pad, between the first and second joints, of those fingers (known as the 'piper's grip') you will find your pinkie is much more usefull as a brace. It does take some getting used to, but like anything else... practice makes it much easier and more effective.

I use this right hand position all the time, for high D and low D alike. My upper hand is still finger tips on the higher whistles, and both in pipers position on the lower ones.

[Cynth]

Boy, there are a lot of helpful answers here. Both for holding the whistle and for minimizing the uproar when changing notes. I didn't ask the question but I am still having problems.

anniemcu, I tried using the piper's grip on high D whistle just for bottom (right) hand because of wrist and arm stress problems I was having. The position itself was extremely comfortable to my hand, but I just could not seem to cover the holes, as crazy as that sounds. I was just resting the fingers over the holes enough to close them, not pressing so as not to tense up, the hole seemed covered when I examined it, I put on lotion, I just couldn't get it. Well, if you can do it I guess I'd better try again--although I gave it about a week with no hopeful sign, but I'll give it another shot. It was a much more natural position for my hand. Do you just allow your fingers to curve naturally rather than make an effort to hold them straighter? I was allowing them to curve naturally to try to keep them relaxed. I have changed back to using flat of pad of finger after the top joint, but the position is really not as good for me.

[anniemcu]

Boy, there are a lot of helpful answers here. Both for holding the whistle and for minimizing the uproar when changing notes. I didn't ask the question but I am still having problems.

anniemcu, I tried using the piper's grip on high D whistle just for bottom (right) hand because of wrist and arm stress problems I was having. The position itself was extremely comfortable to my hand, but I just could not seem to cover the holes, as crazy as that sounds. I was just resting the fingers over the holes enough to close them, not pressing so as not to tense up, the hole seemed covered when I examined it, I put on lotion, I just couldn't get it. Well, if you can do it I guess I'd better try again--although I gave it about a week with no hopeful sign, but I'll give it another shot. It was a much more natural position for my hand. Do you just allow your fingers to curve naturally rather than make an effort to hold them straighter? I was allowing them to curve naturally to try to keep them relaxed. I have changed back to using flat of pad of finger after the top joint, but the position is really not as good for me.

I do tend to straighten mine, in the effort to close the holes, but I have learned not to strain them, to keep them as relaxed as 'I can while still getting the seal. *That* took some practice too.

What you described in your last sentence sounds like the pipers grip.

see http://www.chiffandfipple.com/pipers.html

[Cynth]

Oh, I wasn't clear there. I'm not using the pad between the first and second joints--which I think is piper's grip---but I am using the first pad, between first joint and tip of finger. I didn't specify direction from joint. Boy, it gets complicated fast .

Okay, I think that curving is part of my problem. I'll see what I can do with some relaxed slight straightening. Thanks alot. I hadn't even bothered to ask about this because I thought no one would use this grip on a high whistle.