Coyne Bass Regulator

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:20 pm

http://mulelia.demon.co.uk/pipes/pictur ... CN2771.jpg

I have been wondering for a while, how is the bore on this set's bass regulator formed. Of course, the straight part, you could do with a normal bass regulator reamer, but what about the curvey bit? Is it rolled like a giant staple? Any information is appriciated.
thanks,
Jack Devereux

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:18 pm

It may have been hand made/rolled. Most of the better pipemakers make all their own ferrules. It may have been a commercially available tube. Once the tube was made, it would be formed as any tube is formed - filled with lead to keep the tube from collapsing, then heated and wrapped into shape on a pipe bender.

djm

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:52 pm

Phil Wardle of Tasmania owns a Coyne set with an extension like this and he thinks it may have been made by professional makers - "brass" woodwind guys - since it has nary a kink in it, and there's an unusual rivet holding the spring to the extension's one key.
Anyone know about what they were using for this sort of process then? Hydraulics? Wooff copied Phil's set for Dickie Deegan and the extension was kinkier than Jeena Jameson if you follow...well it wasn't perfect anyway. Geoff was using lead like usual for the bends of the bass drone. Brad Angus has made me a couple of the accursed things too and they have dimples as well. Ferrules are like humugous staples, you solder the seam. You need a special jig to bend them, for my extensions Brad had to have help from the Mrs. and Brad's no girly-man neither.
I wrote a big article for the Piper's Review on extensions, double bass regulators, what have you.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:54 pm

I haven't seen it done but I'm told some tubing is filled with sand and the ends are capped with lead... supposed to be easier to bend than a solid pour of lead. Also in thin wall tube with small diameters they slip springs into the tube and bend it. Magically the spring keeps it from crushing.

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:15 am

I wonder what the bores are like in those extensions. I assume there's no wood, past the regular bass reg, it must be just metal. Also, I assume the extension is NOT just a straight cylnder, probably a complex changing cone, and I wonder about the transition from wood bass regulator to metal extension. ? Anyone looked inside one of these things?

Kevin, I enjoyed your article by the way.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:31 am

Thanks!

It's conical, the start of the metal bore matchs that of the wood. Also Brad Angus told me you can roll one of these puppies with the same mandrel you use to roll a bass bar, how 'bout that.
They're a real nightmare to make by hand, Brad had four or five of them blow the seam. I'm sure he knows about sand but doesn't like how it works for whatever reason.

uilleannfinlander · Post by **uilleannfinlander** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:08 am

Just for curiousity:One goldsmiths trick .
Fill tube with pure alcohol, freeze it with liquid oxygen etc . quickly,
bend over mandrel.( Alcohol becomes like elastic rubberkind stuff)
Dont know if this is used with largediam tubes.
Plummers/electrians "springrope" can be use with plastictubes/ annealed coppertubes to make U-bends.

billh · Post by **billh** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:59 am

Yes, I reckon the industrial bending springs might be the way to go for big tubes like this. You could put one on the inside and one on the outside. Perhaps a 'reverse rush' would be effective for establishing the correct taper, so that the bending springs wouldn't have to be used too far past their 'ideal' diameters.

With respect to the conical taper, I think it's been suggested that some such tubes were double-walled, with the inside tube conical and the outside tube more-or-less straight. Or barring that, a tapered insert could be made to join the inner diameter of the extension to the straight bass section, before the curved bit starts.

I can certainly see the attraction of thumbing through brasswind catalogs for pre-made bends, in this situation.

Bill

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:48 am

That thing must be monstereous to roll. Kevin, you said you can use the same mandrel that you use for the bass bar, would that have enough of a taper to it, or would you have to mess around with it somemore? The idea about adding a tapered bit into a straight taper tube, seems intriguing; I'm not familiar with them, but isn't this what mr Tipple does with his pvc flutes? If the tuba people can make curves like this without kinks, surely we can!

thanks,
Jack Devereux

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:16 pm

I guess the other concern is the metal used. Joe Kennedy avoids mending nickel-silver due to its tendency to split and dimple. He prefers bending brass. He makes a jig for bending of a metal spool on a spindle so it can spin. On the same spindle he has two arms, each with a half tube on the inner side to maintain a round shape for pressing the outside of the two arms to be bent. He noted that a bend is more successful if you bend both sides, as opposed to trying to clamp one side and only bend the other. Joe's bends are as tight and smooth as you'd like.

djm

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:30 pm

jdevereux wrote:That thing must be monstereous to roll. Kevin, you said you can use the same mandrel that you use for the bass bar, would that have enough of a taper to it, or would you have to mess around with it somemore?

It was either that the extension seemed to be a continuation of the taper of the bass bar; or that you could bend a bass bar and there's your extension, I forget which, actually...
We're talking about a tapered bass bar, of course.
Are you saying that Joe puts brass bass drone bends on nickel silver sets? Or does he build these extensions?

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:50 pm

I'm saying he avoids it whenever possible. He makes more brass than nickel-silver sets. He has also, in the past, done brass and had it chromed nickel-silver, but says he won't try that one again.

djm

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:48 pm

The glare from the lights killed that picture so I did a fast & dirty touchup to remove the white spots:
http://www.angar.net/pipes/middle_DSCN2771-1.jpg

carel · Post by **carel** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:02 pm

COOL

Thanks

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:25 pm

That's such a beautiful old set.