OK, Exactly What the Heck is "Backpressure?"

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:00 am

This seems to be the most often used word in describing aspects of whistle playability and it still means absolutely nothing to me. I don't get it. When some of you talk about it with respect to say Overtons have a lot of it - the only thing I note is that Overtons take a greater volume (not as in running out of breath) of air and I am not particularly fond of playing Overtons, Chieftains, Albas type whistles as compared to others. So I think maybe I like whistles with little backpressure; then I see someone describe the BD as having lots of backpressure, but I absolutely love playing the BD.

Are you talking about resistance to the air we blow into the tube, so that it's "fed" through the whistle in a certain way, or what?

Can we get some sort of agreed upon continuum (this was perhaps done once but not conclusively agreed upon, I believe) of whistles with respect to backpressure as well as a simple and useful clinical explanation (e.g., how it feels, etc.)?

The whistles I love to play: Copeland, Burke, Sindt, Abell, Busman, SYN BD, O'Riordan, and a host of cheapies including Clarke and Walton. I'm curious as to where they fall, is there a consistency with respect to backpressure (i.e., do I like or dislike a high degree of that aspect, etc.)?

Everything else we talk about (short of music theory) I generally understand or intuit. Even if I get this intellectually, it doesn't seem to mean a hoot to me...

Philo

tubafor · Post by **tubafor** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:46 am

I'll take a stab at this one... Backpressure is usually refered to (at least in my experience in the woodwind and brass world) as the resistance one gets back from an instrument when putting air into it.

For example, a trumpet player feels quite a bit of backpressure - the resistance to the air he's trying to put through his embochure to make a sound. And, it increases with a smaller horn. Once saw a trumpet player keel over in a faint when doing a piece on piccolo trumpet - long high note, and he's suckin' floor.

On the other hand, a tuba (my major in college) has almost no backpressure - you blow and it just goes. The trick with that instrument is air conservation, rather than pressure. You have to manage your air so as not to run out.

In the woodwind world, a flute has no backpressure - blow it out and away it goes. The reeds - sax and clarinet - have varying backpressure according to size. Soprano sax=pretty high, baritone sax=not so much. And, the king of backpressure in the woodwind world is the oboe - try putting all that air through a little tiny opening smaller than a soda straw. Tried learning oboe - gave myself blinding headaches.

Those much wiser than I will undoubtedly chime in at this point, but I would suggest that backpressure could be thought of as resistance - what the instrument kicks back at you when you try to push air into it.

And, I've noticed that my Overtons have that kind of resistance. If I'm playing a piece where there are long phrases and air conservation is an issue, I'll reach for an Overton. If long phrases aren't an issue, an Alba will work, since the resistance is much less.

There's my attempt at the topic. FWIW...

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:52 am

My take on backpressure is the amount of pressure you must provide to get a good sound from the whistle. It's likely approximately inversely proportional to the amount (as in volume) of air you need to provide for a given sound volume, although it's probably more complex than that. So the extremes would be Overton/Harper and the like for high backpressure and Clarke/Shaw and the like for low backpressure.

I would say Burkes, Busmans, Abells are moderate, Weasels, Grinters, and Susatos fairly high, Silkstones and Bleazeys moderate to high, my old Alba Highlander moderate to low. I have two Swaynes, one of which is very high, the other moderate to high.

All purely subjective, of course, and all handmade whistles in which there will be some variation; I'm curious what others' opinions are.

Andrew at one point referred to a flute as having almost no backpressure, which I couldn't imagine until I got one with no backpressure a few days ago. I have no idea what causes it, but it's like no air at all is reflecting back at you.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:59 am

Okay, so if I'm trying to blow up a balloon there is backpressure. If I am blowing through a straw there is none. Is that right?

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:07 am

PhilO wrote: ..
Are you talking about resistance to the air we blow into the tube, so that it's "fed" through the whistle in a certain way, or what?
..
The whistles I love to play: Copeland, Burke, Sindt, Abell, Busman, SYN BD, O'Riordan, and a host of cheapies including Clarke and Walton. I'm curious as to where they fall, is there a consistency with respect to backpressure (i.e., do I like or dislike a high degree of that aspect, etc.)?
..

This is generally what I mean when I say backpressure...the resistance to air passing through the windway.

Of those that I've played, Copelands (though to be honest, there is some variability here) and Shaw are on the lower end of the scale..they may take more or less air volume, but provide less resistance and your breath passes through easily...Breathing into them is like breathing into a cardboard paper towel tube..no resistance at all.

On the higher end of the scale are whistles like Alba and Serpent, and some Overtons (though there's a high degree of variability with Overtons), for instance. On these, you have to really push your breath though the thing...that's backpressure, to me.

In the middle are whistles that have a very slight resistance, which I personally find satisfying. Syn (higher end of average), Abell, SZBE, etc.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:26 am

I would say the BD has not a lot but a good amount of Back Pressure. Yes i would say you like whistles with little to moderate back pressure. The higher you go the more back pressure is also true with whistles. Coming from a Bassoon back ground back pressure on whistles to me is nothing so it is more the whistle than the Back pressure.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:00 pm

Just a technical note from the flute side of things: you are correct, a flute itself has no backpressure. You have to provide the backpressure with your embouchure.

However, different flutes have different amount of resistance with respect to the same embouchure.

Backpressure is how hard the air must be pushed to make the instrument sound--in other words, how hard you blow. Backpressure increases as force increases.

Resistance is related but not the same: resistance is the amount of air the instrument takes to make the instrument sound, where resistance increases as the amount of air decreases.

Backpressure and resistance are usually similar on a given whistle but there is no law that says they have to be. My Cronnolly, for instance, has high backpressure but low resistance: it must be blown hard, and it also uses a hell of a lot of air. My O'Brien has high backpressure and high resistance: it must be blown hard but uses almost no air at all.

--James

Post by **Dale** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:22 pm

I've always figured "backpressure" was an unfortunate word. It really is more about resistance, isn't it?

Dale

Post by **Dale** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:24 pm

By the way, I've been playing this 3-pc. O'Brien D-whistle and it has one of the best volume-of-sound to breathe-exerted ratios I've ever experienced. You take a solid breath and start in on it and you can play for 27 minutes without drawing another breath. I exaggerate, but.....

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:46 pm

Just twenty seven minutes? More pratice.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:53 pm

Cynth wrote:Okay, so if I'm trying to blow up a balloon there is backpressure. If I am blowing through a straw there is none. Is that right?

Yes that is right but...
Depends on the size of the straw. A coffee stir straw will have resistance or back pressure. A Jack in the box soda straw can be yelled through with no back pressure. And a wheat straw, I don't know if they are hollow.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:20 pm

Tommy wrote:
Cynth wrote:Okay, so if I'm trying to blow up a balloon there is backpressure. If I am blowing through a straw there is none. Is that right?
Yes that is right but...
Depends on the size of the straw. A coffee stir straw will have resistance or back pressure. A Jack in the box soda straw can be yelled through with no back pressure. And a wheat straw, I don't know if they are hollow.

If you blow up a balloon with a straw, the balloon provides the backpressure, and there is the same amount, no matter the size of the straw.

If you blow up a balloon with a coffee stir straw, you have much more resistance than if you use a soda straw.

--James

Edited to fix a typo.

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:21 pm

Low Back pressure = gasping for breath

because you ran out too soon. ie empty lungs

High Back pressure = gasping for breath

because you did not run out soon enough. ie lungs still inflated and oxygen depletion.

Both situations require particular air management practices.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:22 pm

Backpressure.

Post by **Dale** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:25 pm

Tommy wrote:Just twenty seven minutes? More pratice.

Unfiltered Camels.

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OK, Exactly What the Heck is "Backpressure?"

OK, Exactly What the Heck is "Backpressure?"

Re: OK, Exactly What the Heck is "Backpressure?"