CP: Introducing the Black Diamond/Offical Web Site

[slowair]

For the past several days it has been my pleasure to work with Erle Bartlett to create a web site that he wanted to match his new whistle in simplicity and beauty. I hope I have done him well.
On the site you can find photos, reviews, sound samples, and commentary from Erle himself; as well as information on how and where to obtain your own Black Diamond.
I have only had my own Black Diamonds for a couple days, but I predict this whistle will become a standard in the field, regardless of price range.
Don't take my word for it. Visit the site and learn more. I'm sure that you will enjoy what you see and hear.
Congratulations Erle. Job well done.
http://www.bdwhistles.com/

The first shipment has already reached the retailers. If you aren't fortunate enough to be among the first, don't dispair, more will be on the way shortly.

Mike Reagan

[brewerpaul]

For the past several days it has been my pleasure to work with Erle Bartlett to create a web site that he wanted to match his new whistle in simplicity and beauty. I hope I have done him well.
Mike Reagan

Ya done good Mike.

For those who don't know it, Mike also did my website which I really love. He's been excellent to work with and makes changes quickly and accurately. I tried setting up my own site, but having a pro do it (and reasonably too!) was an excellent investment. I'd highly recomment his work if you or anyone you know needs website development.

[Cayden]

I don't know about simplicity and beauty although as a website it's fine. I was slightly curious about prices, which are not on the website and the closest retailer (bigwhistle UK) linked on the site doesn't list Black Diamond on their website.


Also(and that's a general remark that applies to a lot of sites I have looked at over time), almost every time I listen to soundsamples on a maker's website it strikes me as odd that the samples are almost invariably of Irish music played by someone who does not know how to play irish music but plays some heavily tongued, halting style like a converted recorder player not really comfortable with a common way of playing the whistle. Which is all fine but effectively the samples fail to tell me anything useful about the whistles themselves (for example are odd sounding intonations part of the whistle or are they a result of the player's not being too much at home on a whistle). In the past this had led me to not even bother asking about whistles I could otherwise have been interested in. I think a bit more care on this aspect would make the whistles on offer more attractive. (and again this is a general remark, the clips here weren't the worst I heard although they didn't really tell me much I would want to know about a whistle)

[slowair]

I am glad you thought the site was fine. I'm not the best, but it is what I do the best. So far.

I was also the person who did the sound samples. It's a shame they are not to your liking. From reading your posts in the past, not many people's would.

You seem to be stuck on this pure traditional notion and that everyone should follow it.. I can't even claim to be of Irish decent as I was adopted. However, the family that did adopt me was 3/4 first generation Irish/American, so I have, in a way, adopted Ireland and her music.

I don't claim to be a good player. I don't claim to even know what I'm doing. I play whistle because I like it. For me, so long as the tune I'm playing is recognizable, I am happy. When people applaud, I feel I have provided some entertainment. I don't play to satisfy the purest among the traditional Irish music circle.

I for one am tired of reading your negative comments and refuse to allow them to influence my enjoyment of playing Irish music.

I play at three seisiuns and in one band now, after just less than four years of playing. Whistle playing has seen me through job loss, divorce, cancer, anxiety and depression. The applause of the many far out weigh the negative comments of one.

If Erle wants to change my sound samples, he is free to do so at any time. I have told him my feelings woud not be hurt. And I mean it. I know I'm not the best there is. I'm far from it. I'm the best I can be and that is all that matters.

Peter, I pity you that you can't simply enjoy the offerings of others. We're not all from Ireland. We all haven't been exposed to Irish music the way you have. We owe you a debt for being one of the many musicuians keeping the true traditional music alive, but you might want to try offeing up positive comments, even to those of us you don't feel measure up to your standards. Seeds, my friend, you're planting seeds. What kind of seed will determine what grows from them. This email is the type of thing you can expect to reap from the seeds you have sown. At least when it falls on this ground.

Mike Reagan

And I would also like to thank the people who offered positive comments on my playing of the Star-Spangled Banner on another thread. I have printed your comments and they are the front page of my music book.

[Bretton]

I would agree with the general idea of what you say Mike, except that you chose to post your recordings as part of a commercial endeavour. I think that opens you up comments like Peter's.

Maybe you/Erle should add some additional clips with players of various styles (I'm sure some of the retailers could provide a few).

I'd like to see some larger pictures of the mouthpiece.


-Brett

[StevieJ]

Seeds, my friend, you're planting seeds. What kind of seed will determine what grows from them. This email is the type of thing you can expect to reap from the seeds you have sown. At least when it falls on this ground.

I agree it's all about seeds in this case, and actually Peter was offering a helpful comment that could increase Erle's harvest. If you could see the grain for the cornstalks.

For the record I don't live in Ireland either and I agree completely with what Peter said, as you'll see in another thread. These are the kind of whistles that might well interest me, but definitely not until I hear them played by a good Irish-style player. The sound samples give me almost nothing for me to go on.

Steve

[Cayden]

Peter, I pity you that you can't simply enjoy the offerings of others. We're not all from Ireland.

I was careful how I worded the comment, this is about giving examples on websites selling instruments, not only this one. You would expect that from a sellers point of view you want your product as best represented as possible. My comment was that in most cases it is not the case. This has nothing to do with being from Ireland or not and why would it?
This not about your (or anyone's) playing but about effectively representing what you are trying to sell. As it stands what I hear would not tell me much about the whistle, intonation, responsiveness and how it responds to a common style of playing. That was what my comment was about.

SteveJ beat me by minutes with almost exactly the same comment in the other thread about the whistle, maybe you should pity him too.

[Duffy]

I think Mike did a good job on the web site. I'm sure it will serve Erle well. I haven't reviewed the clips since my current computer sound system wouldn't do anything justice.

I had the first opportunity to play one of the Black Diamond D whistles that are currently on tour. I think Peter would enjoy this whistle and I know if or when he does get a chance to play one that I would truly enjoy hearing a clip. Erle's craftmanship continues.

[Cayden]

I looked at the website because I might well enjoy the whistle, as I have looked at other websites of potentially interesting whistlemakers. But when i hear some of the clips that are posted, and sorry for having to say it, I am more often than not put off the whistle by what I hear and that can hardly be the point of the excercise. So I commented on that. Pity me for it if you must.

I add for clarity:
Mike: you are who you are and you play the way you do. Which is fine by me. I am not telling you how or what to play, I was only remarking on the fact it was the right context to do it as your playing (and similar playing on other whistlemakers' websites) does not provide the information I would be looking for. In fact I looked for two things on the website: price and an indication if the whislte would sound interesting to me. As it stands I found neither.

Recently I have been waxing lyrically about whistleplaying I do enjoy. And enjoy greatly. What response does one side of the board offer up? That I am hawking a friend's whistleplaying. There's no way to please all of you or is there?

[Teri-K]

May I have a serving of pity, as long as it’s being handed out? Peter and Steve make a very good point, as does Bretton. Sound samples which are played by someone at a beginner’s level, or even intermediate, do not portray the whistle fairly. Add heavy reverb and enhancements (as on some sites) and you are doing a serious disservice to the product. Personally, if I hear such clips I won’t buy and see it as an attempt to mask a fault with special effects.

If someone offers up their playing for retail consumption, let alone public consumption, they have to take the criticism with the praise. It’s what you do with the criticism that matters. Of course, none of us like to be told that we’re not a virtuoso, but with such defensive attitudes, it’s a sure bet none will be. Peter’s comments were constructive and even stated that such playing was fine, but that it made the clips unusable as a representation of the whistle’s ability.

It seems an awful lot was assumed and far too much license taken with words not said.

[Tommy]

Perhaps Peter would share a sound clip of what good Irish whistle music should sound like?

[PhilO]

What's interesting to me here is the issue of the usefullness of sound clips on whistle sites in determining whether respective whistles suit the buyer. Peter's comments are in direct opposition to some I recall on a much earlier thread wherein a poster or posters complained that the whistles were being played by professionals thus making it hard to determine whether the whistles sounded so good because of the inherent qualities of the whistles or because of the advanced professional playing of the musicians (thereby fooling those of us less talented into thinking we could make the whistles sound that good).

We've also read on various threads that clips are too doctored or enhanced to tell what the whistle actually sounds like.

While I agree with Peter that I was unable to tell from the clips what I really needed to know about the whistles (and not because of your playing Mike), I can't recall any instance wherein sound clips gave me what I needed to know to make a purchase. Rather, I need to handle a whistle and run it through its paces for at least a day in order to determine whether it's a keeper.

I do know that if a whistle seems like what you want and you buy it from a reputable maker or dealer, you can return it if you like within a certain period.

All of us are at different levels of playing ability and some differing styles as well, which is all good. I'm some Jewish American guy who became entranced wth this instrument and music shortly after the birth of my daughter as a way of doing something useful and fun while hanging out with her early on. Played some drums as a kid and really into the rhythm section kind of guy. Taught myself to read the music, starting listening, etc. Finally found a teacher who gracefully endured my shortcomings and ignorance of the musical phrasing required but who earnestly encouraged my solid sense of rhythm and individual style. That said, I still think it's important, to me anyway, to learn this music, if not the only way, the traditional way with all of its haunting lilting style and specific ornamentation. That is difficult for an outsider, but is coming along nicely. I'm an amateur who plays for enjoyment and satisfaction not for employment or even yet sessions.

I think it is fine to have a different style that varies somewhat from the "norm" however, I think it's important to have a solid base of command before going off in other directions and calling that "style." I've played many tunes in ways that are ok, only to have my teacher suggest changes that just literally open the music and the ears wonderfully and can be applied in other settings as well.

In sum, there are different ways of playing the music but some are definitely better than others and some of us are definitely better at knowing which. Bruce Lee always talked about not doing forms, just let it flow; bull, he himself practiced forms and traditional ways for years (at least 16, I believe) before adopting his own style. My philosophy is to learn this music in the best traditional way I can first, with perhaps only small stylistic deviations along the way (there is a place for tongeing, etc.).

Anyway, I wish we'd all stop trying to shut each other up and being so sensitive. I want to learn from Peter and listen to much of what he says; Erle is a gentleman who is wonderful to deal with, and I met Mike at the Gathering, another terrific gentleman who works hard to set up a lot of cool stuff for us. Geez, it's all good.

I'm not trying to legislate or mediate; I suppose I'm just finding it a tad unsettling to see what seems lately like a stream of us having at it, and maybe that's ok too. Consider this my letting off some steam as well.

Philo

[Teri-K]

Perhaps Peter would share a sound clip of what good Irish whistle music should sound like?

He has numerous submissions on the Clips site, both on whistle and pipes. That's if you were inferring he should offer up his playing.

[Cayden]

I already responded in PM Teri. For examples of good traditional whistle playing go to www.bridodonohue.com but I don't think that was really what the poster meant.

[Teri-K]

I already responded in PM Teri. For examples of good traditional whistle playing go to www.bridodonohue.com but I don't think that was not really what the poster meant.

Thanks, Peter. I think you thought correctly