What does it mean to practice the scales?

[headwizer]

Every flute book recommends practicing the scales over and over. Does it just mean to play the standard D major scale (on a D flute, that is)?

Or does it mean to play the D scale in all its modes (am I saying this correctly?)? And there are so many modes: Ionian (D major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, MixoLydian, Aolean. Can they all be played in D?

Or does it mean to play these modes in D and other keys? How many of these modes can be played on a keyless D flute/whistle? And in what keys? And if I had a fully chromatic (eg, 8-key flute), would I be able to play all modes in all keys?

HELP!!!

[vomitbunny]

Most music you'll encounter will be in D and G. You'll run into a few in A and C, but not that much. To a large extent all of them can be played on a keyless instrument just fine.
I can't vouch for any particular method of learning, but I'm betting scales arn't a big part of most of them. I don't follow any method myself. I scour the forums for tips and read websites, learning as many tunes as I can that are interesting to me or are played at session a lot. I guess my method is akin to a fat guy at a seafood buffet. I eat everything in site that taste good till I'm about to bust, and then come back and do it again as often as I can afford to.

[mvhplank]

Gee, I'm going to have to go downstairs and check my Grey Larsen and see what reason he gives.

I see scales as a way to build in muscle memory and to teach my fingers to move a little more automatically. Sure, start with D and its variations. Don't forget arpeggios, especially if you want to harmonize or improvise, since they're basically chord components, but strung out in a row instead of all at once. Since I mostly play Boehm flute, I'll do a quick scale when I move to a tune in a different key, especially if I'm going from a sharp key to a bunch of flats.

I just got back from tae kwon do class, so the analogy that naturally comes to mind is basics and forms (kata). We have to practice them so we don't have to think about them any more.

Scales are a nice way to warm up, too, while you're thinking of a tune.

Modes? I can't tell them apart, myself. Still working on that.

M

[Wormdiet]

Every flute book recommends practicing the scales over and over. Does it just mean to play the standard D major scale (on a D flute, that is)?

Or does it mean to play the D scale in all its modes (am I saying this correctly?)? And there are so many modes: Ionian (D major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, MixoLydian, Aolean. Can they all be played in D?

Or does it mean to play these modes in D and other keys? How many of these modes can be played on a keyless D flute/whistle? And in what keys? And if I had a fully chromatic (eg, 8-key flute), would I be able to play all modes in all keys?

HELP!!!

One thing I try to do is not so much practice scales, but systematically practice intervals and transitions that give me trouble. FOr instance, the last part of "Farewell to Erin" has these descending arpeggios that for whatever reason give me the willies. Once I spend 20 minutes practicing those the tune will get a lot easier.

On a keyless D flute, the modes used most often can be broken down into two categories: Those that use C# (oooooo), and those that use Cnatural (oxxooo). Within those categories, the only thing that changes is where the "scale" starts, as represented by the letter.

C# Modes:
D Ionian
A Mixolydian
E Dorian

C nat. Modes:
D mixolydian
A dorian
G Ionian

Of course there are many other possible "Scales" but these are the ones that crop up time and time again. As is oft repeated here, >95% of all common Irish tunes fall into these modes, and thus "work" on a keyless D flute. I myself have a soft spot for tunes in D dorian (Eg, Jug of Punch or the Yellow Tinker), which require an Fnatural key.

For the occasional tune pitched a "C instrument" friendly key, I plan on purchasing the appropriate whistles

[talasiga]

........ How many of these modes can be played on a keyless D flute/whistle? And in what keys? And if I had a fully chromatic (eg, 8-key flute), would I be able to play all modes in all keys?

HELP!!!

I have pronounced on this umpteen times in this forum (and sometimes been accused of teaching foxes how to suck eggs!)

For your pleasure I repeat. The following Indo-Greek diatonic scales are easily possible on a keyless D flute:-
[ECM = European Churchsong Mode; HS = Hindustani Scale (North Indian); WSNT = Western Staff Notation Term]

1. Without cross fingerings or half holing

D Ionian (ECM) or Bilawal (HS) or Major Scale (WSNT)
D E F# G A B C# D+

E Dorian (ECM) or Kaafi (HS)
E F# G A B C# D E+

F# Phrygian (ECM) or Bhairavi (HS)
F# G A B C# D E F#+

G Lydian (ECM) or Kalyaan (HS)
G A B C# D E F# G+

A Mixolydian (ECM) or Khamaaj (HS)
A B C# D E F# G A+

B Aeolian (ECM) or Asaavari (HS) or Natural Minor Scale (WSNT)
B C# D E F# G A B+

(C# Locrian is not a diatonic scale and so I am not including it here)

2. With cross fingerings:

D Mixolydian (ECM) or Khamaaj (HS)
D E F# G A B C D+ (xfingered 7th)

E Aeolian (ECM) or Asaavari (HS) or Natural Minor Scale (WSNT)
E F G A B C D E+ (xfingered 6th)

F# Todi (HS)
F# G A B# C# D E# F#+ (xfingered 4th and 7th)
NB. This exotic diatonic scale is not notatable in Western staff notation system without accidentals. Incidentally, I have recorded C as B# and F as E# in accordance with western music theory pedanticism. Its the same thang.

G Ionian (ECM) or Bilawal (HS) or Major Scale (WSNT)
G A B C D E F# G+ (xfingered 4th)

A Dorian (ECM) or Kaafi (HS)
A B C D E F# G A+ (xfingered 3rd)

B Phrygian (ECM) or Bhairavi (HS)
B C D E F# G A B+ (xfingered 2nd)

B Todi (HS)
B C D E# F# G A# B+ (xfingered 2nd . 4th and 7th)
NB. This exotic diatonic scale is not notatable in Western staff notation system without accidentals. Incidentally, I have recorded F as E# in accordance with western music theory pedanticism. Its the same thang.

B Kirwaani (HS) or Harmonic Minor Scale (WSNT)
B C# D E F# G A# B+ (xfingered 7th)
This diatonic scale is not notatable in the xenophobic Western staff notation system without accidentals.

C Lydian (ECM) or Kalyaan (HS)
C D E F# G A B C+ (xfingered tonic)

C Ionian (ECM) or Bilawal (HS) or Major Scale (WSNT)
C D E F G A B C+ (xfingered tonic and 4th)

C Maarwa (HS)
C C# E F# G A B C+ (xfingered tonic)
This exotic diatonic scale is not notatable in the xenophobic Western staff notation system without accidentals.

The following Indo-Greek scales are difficult on a keyless flute without significant half holing or touch and go cross fingerings: Bhairav (HS)(as in Middle Eastern/Greek – Hejaz) and Poorvi (HS)

This tiresome post may subject to editings to correct typos.
ENJOY!

[Eldarion]

[ninjaaron]

I myself have a soft spot for tunes in D dorian (Eg, Jug of Punch or the Yellow Tinker), which require an Fnatural key.

Been over at HC a lot today, so I feel like being a bitchy guitarist.

D dorian is the same as C major. DUH!!

(F major has a D aolean, or natural minor scale)

[Bloomfield]

... Incidentally, I have recorded C as B# and F as E# in accordance with western music theory pedanticism. Its the same thang.

[Wormdiet]

I myself have a soft spot for tunes in D dorian (Eg, Jug of Punch or the Yellow Tinker), which require an Fnatural key.

Been over at HC a lot today, so I feel like being a bitchy guitarist.

D dorian is the same as C major. DUH!!

But if you were to accompany a D dorian piece with drones, would you go with a C or D drone? Maybe in Viking Metal you'd go C, but musicans (and me) would use D

Is WP still holding court?
At least the debates here have some relevant substance.

[talasiga]

I myself have a soft spot for tunes in D dorian (Eg, Jug of Punch or the Yellow Tinker), which require an Fnatural key.

Been over at HC a lot today, so I feel like being a bitchy guitarist.

D dorian is the same as C major. DUH!!

.....

D for Darling, you are confusing
1. scale as in mode with
2. scale as in key signature

1. The scale of D Dorian Mode is not the scale of C major scale (C Ionian mode). D Dorian and C Ionian share the same notes but the tonic of the former is D and of the latter is C. This means that the sequence of notes in each of these scales will be ratio-nally different, the Dorian being
2:1:2:2:2:1:2
and the Ionian being
2:2:1:2:2:2:1.

2. D Dorian is a mode relative to C major key signature for purposes of staff notation. You could just as well say D Dorian is A natural minor seeing as the latter is a complementary expression of C key signature. But this IS NOT PARTICULARLY RELEVANT TO QUESTION/S ABOUT SCALE IN THE SENSE OF "1", IS IT? The topic's starter queries about the different ways of scaling the octave and that is a question about scales in a modal sense.

The greedy king has his crown
and the wise king, his clown

[ninjaaron]

But if you were to accompany a D dorian piece with drones, would you go with a C or D drone? Maybe in Viking Metal you'd go C, but musicans (and me) would use D

Is WP still holding court?
At least the debates here have some relevant substance.

WP is still around. though I havn't seen much of him this week.

As for the viking metal, the Drones would ether be on A or E, and you would used a G#.

Always G#.

[ninjaaron]

I myself have a soft spot for tunes in D dorian (Eg, Jug of Punch or the Yellow Tinker), which require an Fnatural key.

Been over at HC a lot today, so I feel like being a bitchy guitarist.

D dorian is the same as C major. DUH!!

.....

D for Darling, you are confusing
1. scale as in mode with
2. scale as in key signature

...blah blah blah

Yes, all that you have said is right and true.

The post was kinda an inside joke. See, wormdiet and I are refugees from a far off place called Harmony Central Guitar Forum.

It's a strange place.

We say no more.

[Bloomfield]

Yes, all that you have said is right and true.

Another inside joke we outsiders don't get?

[ninjaaron]

Yes, all that you have said is right and true.

Another inside joke we outsiders don't get?

You lost me.

[talasiga]

......
I see scales as a way to build in muscle memory and to teach my fingers to move a little more automatically. Sure, start with D and its variations. Don't forget arpeggios, especially if you want to harmonize or improvise, since they're basically chord components, but strung out in a row instead of all at once.
.......
I just got back from tae kwon do class, so the analogy that naturally comes to mind is basics and forms (kata). We have to practice them so we don't have to think about them any more.

Scales are a nice way to warm up, too, while you're thinking of a tune.

..........
M

Yes, this is well put.

I have mentioned the infamous Londonderry Air before. There are many ways to learn a song from the rote following of shiet music to learning by ear. By way of a simple example, what I would do with Londonderry Air is to follow it note by note a few times and then reduce it to a skeletal version - in this case G major pentatonic - G A B D E G+ and practice that scale and the song also in that scale dropping the very few instances of the 7th (F#) and the 4th (C) that occur in the song. Then, go back to the full version. You may find that this is a quicker method of learning the song than just playing the full version in rote over and over.

You may also notice when you arpeggiate that each of the "primary modes" has one note which cannot serve as the root of a consonant chord. Sometimes you may like to play the mode but by omitting that note. You will be surprised how the dropping of that note emphasises the colour of the mode.

For instance, a good way to practise E Dorian or E Kaafi on your D flute or whistle is:
1. run up and down the scale from E to E+ etc (unremarkable)
2. arpeggiate E min, F#min, G maj, A maj, B min, D maj
3. "hexatonic runs" up and down from E to E+ omitting the C# (the 6th) as the 6th note in Dorian cannot be the root of any consonant chord.

You may be surprised how my exercise 3 serves to emphasise the differences in the various modes on the D flute even they they are all relative to D maj/B min (they all contain the same notes).

Here is my list of "unrootable notes" for each of the "primary modes":

in Ionian: the 7th.
in Dorian: the 6th
in Phrygian: the 5th
in Lydian: the augmented 4th
in Mixolydian: the 3rd
in Aeolian: the 2nd

BTW headwizer, in answer to your last question in the topic opener, on a fully keyed Boehm flute you can play any Indo-Greek mode in any key including those that cannot be easily played on a simple system flute without significant half holing.