"Cuban" flute

Victor Dols · Post by **Victor Dols** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:07 pm

Hi everybody in the list,

This is my first posting to the flute forum. My name's Victor Dols Macia and I'm from Spain; I play a blackwood keyless pratten style Olwell in D.

Here goes my question: some relatives of mine are going to travel to Cuba in february and I was thinking on the possibility of getting an old 5 or 6 key flute used for charanga music in that country (or at least used before the bohem flute was introduced). I know that flutes are not the most indicate to play irish music (they are old french models, aren´t they?), but well, at least it's a keyed flute that is what I'm looking for.

I'm going to order a 6 or 8 key flute from Olwell or McGee and as the waiting list is several years I thought I can learn to use the keys on one of those old "cuban" flutes.

The real question is: ¿do you know some place in Cuba where keyed flutes are sold (old or new)? ¿what do you think?

Víctor.

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:29 pm

There are plenty of French flutes available cheaply without going to Cuba!Unfortunately the subscribers to this forum all seem to want to make as much noise as possible. Brutes !!!
There is no apparant regard given to all those cheaply available sweet playing French 5 or 6 keyed flutes which are so nice to play, but perhaps not competitive in session circumstances without amplification.Do these people not play at home ?Do they want to "shout " all the time ?
Similarly these silly people seem completely to disregard all the fine makers of the past in favour of second rate modern makers.
Most of the the best classic productions in fine order seem to be cheaper than the new junk. Why ?

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:32 pm

Shoes too tight today, Andrew?

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:35 pm

andrewK wrote:There are plenty of French flutes available cheaply without going to Cuba!Unfortunately the subscribers to this forum all seem to want to make as much noise as possible. Brutes !!!
There is no apparant regard given to all those cheaply available sweet playing French 5 or 6 keyed flutes which are so nice to play, but perhaps not competitive in session circumstances without amplification.Do these people not play at home ?Do they want to "shout " all the time ?
Similarly these silly people seem completely to disregard all the fine makers of the past in favour of second rate modern makers.
Most of the the best classic productions in fine order seem to be cheaper than the new junk. Why ?

WOOF!

Victor Dols · Post by **Victor Dols** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:45 pm

andrewK wrote:There are plenty of French flutes available cheaply without going to Cuba!Unfortunately the subscribers to this forum all seem to want to make as much noise as possible. Brutes !!!
There is no apparant regard given to all those cheaply available sweet playing French 5 or 6 keyed flutes which are so nice to play, but perhaps not competitive in session circumstances without amplification.Do these people not play at home ?Do they want to "shout " all the time ?
Similarly these silly people seem completely to disregard all the fine makers of the past in favour of second rate modern makers.
Most of the the best classic productions in fine order seem to be cheaper than the new junk. Why ?

I just want a cheap flute to learn how to use the keys. I don't understand you.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:05 pm

Hi, Victor. If you sift through Andrew's rant (well-intentioned, to be sure), he's suggesting that, as you live in Spain, you should be able to find readily available old French flutes of high quality and fairly low cost without having to travel to Cuba, where such flutes were played. A trip to France might be necessary, but who knows? I imagine that one can find French flutes in Spain.

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:16 pm

What stupidity I have just been reading.
The last two French flutes I bought were in New York and in France,for very little money, but I didn't have to go there to get them.
A friend has within the last couple of days sold a fine French flute for around $300 on eBay, with no interest being shown.
Is this too dear for you ????
This is the attitude I have been expressing amazement at. I really do not understand what you people want. There are masses of good old flutes out there available cheaply but instead of buying them and enjoying them you would rather moan !!
And it makes no difference, Nanohedron where one lives. That is the age we live in.It is no easier in Spain or the US, but possibly easier in England.
It is a matter of having your wits about you.
If I were t o go to France I should no doubt see many French Flutes. Doesn't mean the price is right. But I don't need to go.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:21 pm

andrewK wrote:What stupidity I have just been reading.
The last two French flutes I bought were in New York and in France,for very little money, but I didn't have to go there to get them.
A friend has within the last couple of days sold a fine French flute for around $300 on eBay, with no interest being shown.
Is this too dear for you ????
This is the attitude I have been expressing amazement at. I really do not understand what you people want. There are masses of good old flutes out there available cheaply but instead of buying them and enjoying them you would rather moan !!

I was moaning? Really, Andrew, sometimes I'm surprised at your rather loose grasp of English! I believe most people would agree that my previous post indicated what you just did above insofar as price and availability go (which you at least now clarified --we are not mind readers).

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:27 pm

Oh, and Victor, don't mind Andrew. Sometimes he's crabby.

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:29 pm

I cannot quite follow the ramble of your last paragraph , Nanohedron ( can I just call you N , ? ) but you must not take any reference to be specifically to yourself. There are others writing.
I buy lots of fine flutes cheaply. I can't see why you can't.It isn't boasting. I shall be very happy if others get into buying good old flutes instead of much dearer and frequently inferior modern stuff, which is the burden of my posts.
AND Nanohedron , if you are at all honest you will acknowledge that I have made no suggestion at all that there may be any availability of French flutes in Spain. All in your mind. Such a silly idea !
If I get crabby it is at people who are being negative and unreasonable, and unwilling to read what is actually written.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:40 pm

Point taken about eBay, and suchlike. eBay's an option I don't care to explore, so it didn't occur to me, hence my geographic presumptions. Still, there could be worse things than a trip to France!

rh · Post by rh » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:45 pm

Bienvenidos, Victor.

I was in Cuba about 4 years ago and saw some flautistas but they were all playing sistema Boehm -- I have the feeling that if there are any simple-system flutes on the island, they are likely in a sad condition. Things are very tough there right now, even the top conservatories are critically short on instruments. That having been said, if you're lucky, something may turn up... but i think Andrew is correct that it is probably easier to find something outside of Cuba.

There was one for sale here not long ago, i don't know the person, though:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... t=charanga

Also note that if any flute has actually been used to play charanga music, it may very well have had the embouchure altered and the end-cork screwed all the way in to facilitate playing in the third and fourth octaves where charangueros like to hang out.

You might also want to ask on the Earlyflute list on Yahoogroups.com, if you haven't already.

¡Buena suerte!

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:46 pm

Well I know from the experience of buying many good flutes that you are making a mistake about eBay, Nanohedron .I say this at the risk of running up future bids I may make by encouraging competition, but with pushing fifty flutes now when one would do I shouldn't care.
I would rather see the Chiff people buying good and interesting old flutes instead of agonising over second rate new stuff at much higher prices.
For two pins I would start selling you some, just to show you what you are missing !

La vida es dura.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:29 pm

Andrew, you don't happen to have any antique left-handed keyed flutes in you collection now, do you?

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:37 pm

Only a Firth Pond & Hall, Henke, which needs fettling.
I bought it because I was intrigued by the thaught of an 1850 New York maker accomodating a left handed player when people were not supposed to be left handed.It was not allowed in Russia until quite recently.
I only know of a couple of left handed Rudall & Rose flutes of the period. It would be very interesting to know of others.
If you give me your email address I shall send photos.