Olwell Pratten Owners.....

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:57 am

I have a request for you: I'd greatly appreciate it if a couple of you could measure the size and spacing of the tone holes on your Olwell Prattens, for spacing I'd need the distance in mm from the top edge of hole #1 to the bottom edge of hole #3, and then the measurement from the top edge of #4 to the bottom edge of #6.

Reason I ask is that recent events have lead me to believe I may have an Olwell "Nicholson" rather than a "Pratten".... the measurements above will clarify for me.

Thanks much,

Loren

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:43 pm

C'mon gang, someone throw me a bone: The suspense is killing me!!!

Loren

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:56 pm

Hang on, hang on!

I don't have the flute here at work. I'll measure it for you when I get home.

Consider this a bone.

Stuart

Goldie · Post by **Goldie** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:57 pm

Hey Loren,

cannot help you out with an Olwell Nicholson but the measurements on my

Clementi Nicholson are
holes 1 to 3 7,7 cm
holes 4 to 6 7,6 cm

and on my

Prowse Nicholson are
holes 1 to 3 7,5 cm
holes 4 to 6 7,4 cm

I think the Prowse was made before the big holes came round so perhaps very early 1830s or late 1820s?

The Clementi has bigger holes on 4 and 5...

Both nice but Clementi plays more in tune

Colin

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Goldie on 2003-01-31 17:58 ]</font>

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:18 pm

Thanks Colin

Stuart, Thanks man - I'll keep an eye out for those Pratten measurements.

Loren

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:07 pm

Hey Loren, you're so demanding !)
Top 1 - bottom 3 = 80.23
top 4 - bottom 6 = 77
do you need hole sizes?
later, e.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:15 am

1 to 3 : 80mm

4 to 6 : 78mm

Close to Eilam's. This is using the only ruler I could find laying around that had stupid metric marks.

So, do you have a Nicholson or a Pratten? And, what "recent events" have led you to believe you have a Nicholson?

Stuart

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 8:06 am

Are we talkin' the infamous "Cocus Cannon"
here that you received around mid-June?
Is there an outside chance that Mr. Olwell
would have the answer....or is there something I'm missing here?

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 8:44 am

Hey Guys, thanks for the reach measurements

I do need the hole sizes as well I'm afraid.....yeah, I'm a PITA, LOL!

Yeah, we're talking about the Cocus Cannon. Last I heard Pat was off on a trip, and besides, I hate to bother the man while he's working - people are waiting for their flutes too!

Loren

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:30 am

Hmm . . . don't take this the wrong way, but I am a little uncomfortable about posting the measurements of an extant flutemaker's work. I know you're not trying to make a ripoff Olwell Pratten, but I still am not comfortable with it.

Especially since the problem could be so easily solved if you were to call Pat, who would certainly want to resolve any such confusion.

His Nicholson and Pratten designs may not differ by all that much, remember.

I don't mean to sound preachy.

Stuart

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:54 am

Loren, later today I'll take measurements.
There is so much that goes into making a flute. Hole size, distance, outside dimensions.... these are like the icing on the cake.
It's like asking for measurement of the computer box and screen, are you any closer to produce that computer?

All the best, eilam.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:39 pm

Posting measurements for the sake of identifying an instrument is NOT ethically wrong. You'd need a whole lot more than hole size and placement dimensions to copy a flute.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:57 pm

Stuart,

I understand your concerns, but as Chris Abell told me over lunch last week: "There are no secrets in flute making - once you have one of my flutes, you have all my secrets in your hands." We were eating burritos at the time....

Seriously, people post hole spacing and sizing information all the time, for all sorts of reasons. Besides, as others have mentioned, hole spacing and size are just the tip of the iceberg, they'll get you nothing useful by themselves. Now if I happened to be asking for bore profile measurements.....

Anyway, this is a minor issue, and not worth bothering Patrick over, unless I find out I didn't get what I ordered.....in the mean time, I respect your decision Stuart, that's cool.

Loren

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:42 pm

Loren-- thanks for understanding. Chris Abell has always taken that position, and I admire him for it. It is his opinion, though, and others might not feel that way. As a matter of fact, ironically, I was asked by another maker last week not to let anyone measure a particular flute. I was not 'prohibited' from doing it, I was just asked. Though I don't think it's necessarily a minor issue, Loren, since everyone can't help but wonder . . . you've talked up the 'Cocus Cannon' so much, and now you're saying you think you might have a Nicholson. So I think you should talk to Pat about it. What is it that makes you think you have a Nicholson?

Jessie-- I never said I thought it was unethical, I just said I was uncomfortable with it. I suppose I implied it, sure. But since there are really no ethical absolutes, and I don't know what Pat would think, I'd rather have the OK from him first.

Stuart

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:52 pm

To answer your question Stuart: Jessie's Delrin Olwell is a Nicholson. When I compared my Cocus Flute to her Delrin, side by side, they appeared to be virtually identical in terms of hole sizing and spacing, although I didn't have calipers with me at the time.

Now, Jessie mentioned that she had recently played Terry Briley's new Olwell Pratten, and compared it side by side with her Delrin flute. She told me that the hole sizes and spacing on those two flutes was clearly different, so it makes sense that my flute may indeed be a "Nicholson" Olwell rather than a "Pratten" Olwell.

Loren