Barnett Samuel & Son B Whistle

pjgossman · Post by **pjgossman** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:11 am

I was wondering if anyone can tell me more about this company and its whistles. I came across this whistle at an antique show. It is a B, not a B flat whistle. It appears to be brass with a white metal fipple.... lead? (I hope not). tin?

The most I've been able to find is that the company name dates to 1872 and "Ltd" was added in 1901. It became Decca Gramophone in 1928.

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:42 am

I hope you bought it. When you say brass with a metal fipple, I assume you mean a full length brass tube with a metal fipple plug. Can't really tell you any more than you know. It sounds pretty much like Generation and other better whistles of the same period. The '20s seem to have produced rather a lot of pennywhistles, both of that type and also of the rolled tin with wooden (e.g.Clarke) plug type, both conical and cylindrical.

And yes, it's probably lead. If you want to play it, you can minimize the lead exposure by coating the exposed plug surface with 3-4 coats of clear fingernail enamel, letting it dry fully between coats. Don't get any into the airway - it might help to plug the airway opening with something like aluminum foil during the coating process.

I have them in D and High G (one gen, one not clearly attributable). Rather like them, actually.

pjgossman · Post by **pjgossman** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:54 am

Chuck, Yes, I did buy it and it sounds very mellow! It is a cylindrical tube with a white metal fipple plug as you describe. The brand and trademark (triangle with "Dulcet") are raised letters on a thin piece of brass rolled around the cylinder and soldered on. The key of the whistle is stamped "B" into the band, I would assume prior to being attached to the whistle.

I appreciate the suggestion re: clear nail polish.
Patrick

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:29 am

http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/bat/ductflute.html

there's one mentioned in this collection, which appears to be the Ashmolean museum in Oxford (UK). Look down the list to 038 near the bottom.

So you really have a museum piece there!

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:44 am

http://www.rncm.ac.uk/library/htdocs.verify/hwm1.htm

another mention in this collection

and a third mention of Dulcet Flageolets:

http://freespace.virgin.net/cade.york/l ... mclist.htm

Hopefully that will give you some other names to seach on!

pjgossman · Post by **pjgossman** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 5:20 pm

Thanks, Martin. I appreciate the references very much.

From what I've been able to learn, Barnett Samuel & Sons became a huge supplier of all types of musical instruments including banjos and harmoniums. By 1901 they had a massive catalog (which i'd like to see but don't know where a copy might be held.) Until now, all references I've seen to Barnett Samuel have been for other wind instruments, but not a "tin whistle".

It looks as if (038) might be the only tin whistle in the ones you reference, Martin. Do you know if the museum has added information about the items they hold?

I do find the history of the company fascinating. One of Samuel's sons patented a portable gramophone around 1914 which was a big hit during WWI with the soldiers in the trenches (according to one reference.) The company stocked a lot of records for it, thus setting the stage for what became Decca Gramaphone and later Decca Records.

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:42 am

Hi Patrick,

I think it would be worth approaching the Ashmolean for more information, they may indeed have more detail than is shown on the catalogue.

It is of course quite possible that the whistle was donated to the museum in a large batch of items and they may have no further details - the label may have been made up for it by an employee who just thought it was a whistle!

Good hunting! Martin

Jumper · Post by **Jumper** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:15 pm

Hi Patrick,

Recently I was given a gift of a Barnett Samuel high G tinwhistle, which sounds like it must be quite similar to yours. It has a soldered band label with a trademark (an orchestral triangle and striker with the letters 'BS' inside), the word 'DULCET," and the name 'BARNETT SAMUEL LONDON' below. As on your instrument, there's a key indication of G stamped under this. The band is soldered on upside down, as if it were meant to be read while playing. The instrument body is brass, and there's a gray metal plug (lead, I'm quite certain) in the fipple. The instrument is very small, 8.5" long by 7/16" diameter, which is very close to the size of my modern Generation G.

Due to corrosion in the fipple, this instrument is unfortunately not playable at this point, so I can't describe the tone. It looks like it may have originally been painted black, as there is still some on the underside, and the brass is shiny in a tiny spot where the paint recently flaked off. The documentation supplied with the instrument states in part that it is "An antique brass Whistle found in the shore of the river Thames near London and dating to the 1850s." It looks as if this may well be true, as there's corrosion at the points where solder was applied and in the airway, and many small dents and much discoloration. At this point I have no way of confirming the date; Barnett Samuel was established in the early 1830s, so the suggested date is at least within the realm of possibility.

On close examination, it appears that the brass tube was rolled and soldered. The joint runs the length of the tube, and has split slightly at the bottom, as well as on the fipple. The seam runs along the left edge of the fingerholes, as the instrument is played.

What immediately struck me about this instrument is its similarity to an old Generation C whistle in my collection. This is a nickel-plated brass instrument, and it has an identical style of lead plug, a soldered cigar-band-style label, and incised decorative grooves around the body above and below the fingerholes. The Barnett Samuel whistle also has these grooves, although there also appear to be some above the label. The Generation was made from drawn seamless tubing, a technology that probably didn't exist when the Barnett Samuel whistle was made.

I'd love to know more about these instruments, the likely date of manufacture, and if there's any connection between Barnett Samuels and the Generation company. Have you turned up any additional information on your instrument?

pjgossman · Post by **pjgossman** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:10 pm

Jonathan,
You may have an older whistle than I. My whistle does not appear to have a seam, and it is labeled a little differently as I have “Barnett Samuel & Son” on mine. (You indicated yours has just Barnett Samuel) The information I have indicates that in 1861 Barnett Samuel acquired the music part of a company from his brother in law, who started the larger company in 1832 (which made watches and steel pens.)

The company was “Barnett Samuel” from 1861 to 1869. When Barnett’s son Nelson joined the company in 1869, it became “Barnett Samuel & Son.” Barnett’s eldest son joined in 1872, but I don’t know if the company became “Barnett Samuel & Sons” at that point. Again, the only information I have is that it became Barnett Samuel & Sons, Ltd in 1901.

This might suggest that your whistle was made in the 1861 to 1869 period, and mine in the 1869 to 1872 period. On the other hand, mine may have been made at any point to 1928 when the company was sold and became Decca Gramaphone. As much as I would like to think mine was made in the 1869 to 1872 period, I can only guess that they changed labels to match the changes in the company name.

It would be very interesting to find out what the date the trademark was filed. That could help establish what the earliest date of manufacture might have been, for both whistles.

My whistle is 14 1/8 “ long with a diameter of 5/8” (359 mm by 15mm). It, too, has marks above and below the holes as on yours, but I wonder if they were meant to be decorative or were made as part of the manufacturing process as the blank was turned and worked?

My whistle has some dings in it as well, but plays nicely. There is nothing to indicate that it had ever been painted. The band is soldered on in the opposite direction of yours. You can see the scoring above and below the band in the photo below. Similar scoring is on the end of the whistle.

Here’s a closeup of the band where you can see the scoring as well. Note that the end of “Barnett” falls a little differently on my whistle as letters are moved over to make room for “& Son”.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pjgossman on 2003-01-10 18:11 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pjgossman on 2003-01-11 16:56 ]</font>

Jumper · Post by **Jumper** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:24 pm

Yes, it would appear that yours is a bit newer. Mine definitely doesn't have the '& Son' bit on the label, as your does.

Just out of curiosity, where did you look up the history of the company? I found a few hits with a Google search, but nothing as detailed as your information.

I did some work today on the sediment blocking the airway with an Exacto knife and dental tools. After I scrubbed out the inside with fine steel wool on a dowel, and washed it thoroughly with hot water, I did some very slight adjustments to the blade with my fingers. Now it speaks, and sounds rather sweet, especially when compared to the piercing Generation high G I have.

I'm reluctant to play it much, considering the lead plug and the instrument's fragile condition, but it was a real joy to get it working. I have to wonder how many decades it's been silent, and what sort of music its last musical owner played on it.

-Jonathan-