Irish vs Scottish

candis bowen · Post by **candis bowen** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:40 pm

What's the difference in instruments & music? Gaelic has subtle differences between the two, which I'm trying to learn har har, but does the music also? From my research, both had virtually the same instruments. I'm of Scots descent (a transplanted Stewart in Ohio) & all of the musical info is Irish. Just real curious.

Candi

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:01 pm

There may be some answers for you here.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=43607

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:59 pm

As long as this is on the flute board, let's give props to Phil Smillie, a fluter in Scottish TM. You don't hear about him much at all but he is a very good player, the equal of the "big names" of Irish music.

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:40 pm

Wormdiet wrote:As long as this is on the flute board, let's give props to Phil Smillie, a fluter in Scottish TM. You don't hear about him much at all but he is a very good player, the equal of the "big names" of Irish music.

Great guy too! I saw the Tannies a couple of years ago, an had a nice chat with him. The group has been together for 30 years!

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:45 pm

Jon C. wrote: Great guy too! I saw the Tannies a couple of years ago, an had a nice chat with him. The group has been together for 30 years!

Indeed! I saw them last Fall. . . went to the show, got the T-shirt. (Literally!) Unfortunately I didn't get to do the "adoring groupie" post-concert chat, but it was a great concert.

He kept doing this odd thing when whistling - it looked like he would pop the top hand holes by taking off his bottom hand and slapping the whistle with it.. . . I have yet to see anything like it.

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:24 pm

Wormdiet wrote: Indeed! I saw them last Fall. . . went to the show, got the T-shirt. (Literally!) Unfortunately I didn't get to do the "adoring groupie" post-concert chat, but it was a great concert.

I got a T shirt when I saw them too, nice Tee's! The Adoring groupie thing is a little hard for me to do, but at least I can talk flutes... He was playing a Eb Hawkes & sons that had just developed a huge crack in the barrel coming to the USA, he had clamped the barrel. That would be a tough thing when you are on tour!
Jon

jmccain · Post by **jmccain** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:05 pm

candis bowen wrote:What's the difference in instruments & music?...

I could point out some of the fundamental rhythmn differences (the tachum, Scotch snap), ornamentation purpose and placement, the influence of piping, dancing, language and cultural, and on and on.

But, the primary difference I've found is that players of Irish music tend to want to get together and play with others, and players of Scottish music tend not to want to do this.

Best, John

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:42 am

There are other Scottish musicians?

pandscarr · Post by **pandscarr** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:56 am

But, the primary difference I've found is that players of Irish music tend to want to get together and play with others, and players of Scottish music tend not to want to do this.

Rubbish.

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:10 am

Well, one difference is that a few Scots tunes are in Bb, I think. Irish, if I'm not mistaken, tends to gravitate towards D and G. I think there also may be a bit more of a Norse influence on Scots culture than on Irish. I don't know whether this translates over to the music or no.

All the above should be taken with the biggest grain of salt you can find. Note the heavy usage of words and phrases such as "I think" "may be" and "don't know."

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:14 am

I had a great time in Scotland playing with traditional musicians in the Highlands and around Findhorn. Maybe that was because we had sessions where nobody got paid and we came together for the craic rather than for the measly fee that bored Irish session musicians usually get paid.
But the way I heard it was: When Irish musicians want to have some tunes they get together and play some tunes.
When Scottish musicians want to have some tunes first they set a precise time, name the society, then they elect a president, then they elect a secretary to take notes....
(Just a joke Pam)

pandscarr · Post by **pandscarr** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:23 am

Well, one difference is that a few Scots tunes are in Bb, I think.

Rubbish. Tunes played on the Bflat pipes may be in Bflat, but are rarely played indoors.

The same tunes played on A Border or Smallpipes are in A - and often played at sessions.

There are at least 6 local sessions near me... in Highland Perthshire, and they are very sociable.

Rubbish...rubbish...rhubarb... off to play my new smallpipes by myself!!! rubbish...rubbish...

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:40 am

Well now, I didn't say they were all in Bb now did I? And a little leeway should be provided to a former pipe band member I think...

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:15 am

Hi, Candi. Some answers for you at these previous discussions: [ if the links work ]

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ence+irish

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ence+irish

Coincidence – I was playing tunes with Phil Smillie on Sunday night [ and well into Monday morning. ] The “Tannahill Weavers” were playing at Dougie McLean’s 4-day “Perthshire Amber” Festival in Pitlochry. Some good music played at the “end of festival” party. We hadn’t met up for about 3 years. He’s still playing great.
jmccain – any Scots musicians in your part of the world may be as you describe – I wouldn’t know – but that’s not my experience anywhere else on the planet, and particularly not in Scotland.
Cofaidh - although the pipes are pitched – approximately – in Bb, when any other instruments play pipe tunes we naturally transpose them into concert pitch. Some fiddle music is indeed in Bb, but I would guess it is not even near 1% . The main single difference in keys used in Scottish and Irish music is that “A” major is much more common in Scottish than in Irish. “Flat” keys are also more common in Scottish fiddle playing than in Irish, but would be more likely to be played in a performance situation rather than in a session.
Differences in instruments played too. Scotland has mainly the Highland pipes, and more recently, the smaller more social “small-pipes” in all their various forms, the fiddle, the piano accordion and the clarsach [ small harp ]. Ireland has its’ own unique uilleann pipes, the fiddle, more likely the button-accordion. Harp, like fiddle , and to a lesser extent, the whistle, is common to both traditions. Ireland has in addition far more players of instruments such as concertina, tenor banjo, and flute.

mcdafydd · Post by **mcdafydd** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:28 am

David Johnson's books are especially fun and easy to read. Jack Campin also has a couple CD's available with a lot of historical references and information about flute tunes. I am enjoying the Embro CD now. I've put some links below. Also, check out the link at the bottom for a little blurb on modern differences in Irish and Scottish music quoting Kevin Crawford..

Campin, Jack. (2002). Embro, Embro: the hidden history of Edinburgh in its music, CD-ROM. <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>.

Johnson, David. (1984). Scottish Fiddle Music in the Eighteenth Century: A Music Collection and Historical Study.

Johnson, David. (2003). Music and Society in Lowland Scotland in the 18th Century.

Purser, John. (1993). Scotland's Music: A History of the Traditional and Classical Music of Scotland from Earliest Times to the Present Day.

<http://www.scotlandsmusic.com/eastcoastfiddlestyle.htm>.
<http://www.scotlandsmusic.com/westcoastfiddlestyle.htm>.
<http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/nq/resourc ... gaelic.htm>
<http://www.sunspotpro.com/info_scottish ... style.html>

Cheers!

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