Red Rose Cafe and Kathryn Oggie

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Spanishwhistler
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Red Rose Cafe and Kathryn Oggie

Post by Spanishwhistler »

I am not sure if the Red Rose Cafe is even a traditional tune from any of the three major Celtic isles, but it is a beautiful tune. I also do not know who the composer is or when it was written, but Andre Rieu does play it, as do a good number of other performers. Does anybody know any more about it or where I may find it?

The second tune I am looking for is a tune called Kathryn Oggie. If anybody can help with that, please let me know. Thanks, I appreciate any help.
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Cynth
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Post by Cynth »

I haven't found the standard notation (may not since it is under copyright), but a little info from http://www.netsoc.ucd.ie/~justy/redrose.html. If you go to this website, at the bottom of the page just run your mouse across the image and you can hear The Fureys and Davey Arthur sing the whole song. It is a very jolly song!

Red Rose Café
Author: Petrus Kartner-music, Don Black lyrics
Copyright: Dick James Music Ltd, London

They come from the farms and the factories too
And they all soon forget who they are.
The cares of today are soon washed away
As they sit at a stool by the bar.
The girl with green eyes in the Rolling Stones shirt
Doesn't look like she works on the land.
The man at the end, he's a very good friend
Of a man who sells cars second hand.

Chorus:
Down at the Red Rose Cafe in the Harbour
There by the port just outside Amsterdam.
Everyone shares in the songs and the laughter.
Everyone there is so happy to be there.

The salesmen relax with a few pints of beer
As they try not to speak about trade.
The poet won't write any verses tonight.
He may sing a sweet serenade.
So pull up a chair and forget about life.
It's a good thing to do now and then
And if you like it here I have an idea
Tomorrow let's all meet again.

"Here is a nice easy listening song. It was a big hit for the Fureys back 1987. "
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
Spanishwhistler
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Post by Spanishwhistler »

I have long since had the lyrics to the song but I really like that version on that link. Thank you for finding that Cynth!
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Cynth
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Post by Cynth »

Okay. There are a number of versions of this tune. There are four of them given in ABC notation below and I hope one is the version you are looking for. To get the sheet music, copy one version and paste it into the ABC Convert-A-Matic at this address http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html. If one of them is the right tune, you can then print it up as a PDF file from there. I checked and they all work. But let me know if you have a problem.

Everything below is from The Fiddler's Companion http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/KA.htm

KATHARINE OGGLE/OGIE/OGGY. AKA and see "Catherine Logie," "Katherine Loggy," "Lady Catherine Ogle," "Ketrin Ogie," "Bonny Katherine Oggy." Scottish, Air. A Minor. Standard. AABB. The air, named after an unknown woman, was composed by Irish harper Rory dall O'Cahan, who lived in Scotland in the early 17th century. It appears earliest in the Scottish Panmure Manuscript #9454, c. 1675, Seventy Seven Dances, Songs and Scots Airs for the Violin, and was printed under this title in the Appendix to Playford's Dancing Master of 1686 (a note called it "a new dance"). On the strength of the Playford publication in the Dancing Master, 1686 edition, the English collector Chappell (1859) disputes the claim of Scottish ancestry. Chappell (1859), in fact, takes virulent exception to Stenhouse's scholarship regarding this tune after the latter claimed that the air was Scottish and dated it from the year 1680 (when it was sung by Mr. John Abell at a concert in Stationers' Hall). Chappell found that the only date Abell could possibly have sung it was in 1702, and he states that the earliest printing was in the Appendix to Playford's Dancing Master of 1686 (where it appears under the title "Lady Catherine Ogle"); Chappell, who claimed many Irish and Scottish airs as English, was evidently unaware of the version in the Panmure Manuscript when he accused Stenhouse of being deliberately misleading regarding its national origin. John Glen (1891) also disagrees with Chappell, noting that Chappell's own source, John Playford, published the tune a year before it was mentioned in The Dancing Master's appendix (1688) in Apollo's Banquet (5th edition, 1687) where it is called a "Scotch Tune" in footnotes and in fact appears under the title "A Scotch Tune" only. O’Farrell (c. 1806) also listed the melody as “Scotch.” It appears in one of the earliest Scottish fiddler's manuscript repertory books, c. 1705, in the private collection of Frances Collinson (1971). Early Scottish printed versions include the Guthrie Manuscript (c. 1675), the Leyden Manuscript (c. 1692) and it is included in the Gillespie Manuscript of Perth (1768). Later Scottish printings were in Orpheus Caledonius (1725 and 1733 editions). A popular song to the air was written (or rather reworked) by Thomas D'Urfey in his Pills to Purge Melancholy (1719-20) entitled "Bonny Kathern Loggy." Later versions of the air appear in The Merry Musician; or, A Cure for the Spleen (1716) and Ramsey's The Tea Table Miscellany. Published editions of ballad operas which include the tune are The Quaker’s Opera (1731), Polly (1729), The Beggar’s Wedding (1729), Pattie and Peggie (1730), The Lover’s Opera (1730) and The Highland Fair (1731). Later it was used by the poet Robert Burns as the vehicle for his song "Highland Mary" and appears in the Scots Musical Museum (No. 164). McGibbon (Scots Tunes, book II), c. 1746; pg. 44. Morison (Highland Airs and Quicksteps, vol. 2), c. 1882; No. 43, pg. 28. O’Farrell (Pocket Companion, vol. II), c. 1806; pg. 94. Flying Fish, Robin Williamson ‑ "Legacy of the Scottish Harpers, Vol. 2."

X:1
T:Katrin Ogie
L:1/4
M:4/4
K:Am
F|DGGG|AGG/2A/2c|AGA2|F3/2G/2AF|DGGG|AGGc|ddcA|G2A||\
c|dddA|cccG|AAAG|FGAF|DGGG|AGGc|ddcA|G2A|]

X:2
T:Cathrine Ogie
M:C
L:1/8
R:Air
S:O’Farrell – Pocket Companion, vol. II (c. 1806)
Z:AK/Fiddler’s Companion
K:A Minor
A>G | E2 A>B A3B | c2 B>A A2 B>c | d3e dB A>B | G3A B2 A>G |
E2 A>B A3B | c>d B>c A2 g>f | e2 d/c/B c>d B>c | A4 e2 :: AB |
c>d e>f g3a | g<e de g2 d>c | B2 g>e dB A>B | G3A (B/4c/2<d) c>B |
c2 (B>A/2B/4) A3E | A>Bc d2 {c/d/}e2 d>c | d>eg>a g<e dB | A4 e2 :|

X:3
T:Katharine Ogie
M:C
L:1/8
R:Air
N:”Slow”
S:McGibbon – Scots Tunes, book II, pg. 44 (c. 1746)
Z:AK/Fiddler’s Companion
K:A Minor
(A>G) | E2 (A>B) A3B | (c>d)(B>c) A2 (Bd/c/) | d3g (dB)”tr”(A>G) | G3A (G/A/B) “tr”A>G |
E2(A>B) A3B | (c>d)(B>c) A2 (a/g/f) | e2 (dc/B/) (c>d)(B>c) | “tr”A4e2 :: A>B |
(c>d(e>f) g3a | (ge)”tr”(dc) g2 (dc) | B2 (AB) (dB)(AB) | G3A (B/c/d) “tr”c>B | c2”tr”(B>A) A3E |
(A>B)(c>d) ({c/d/}e2) “tr”(d>c) | (de)(g>a) (ge)(dB) | “tr”A4e2 :: (a>g) | e2(a>b) a3b |
(c’/b/c’/)d’/ “tr”(b/a/b/>c’/ a2(bc’) | d’3c’ (b/d’/c’/b/ “tr”a>g | g3a (g/a/b) “tr”a>g | e2(a>b) a3b |
(c’/b/c’/)d’/ (b/a/b/)c’ a2 (a/g/f) | e2(dc/B/) (c/4d/4c/4B/4c/>)d/ (B/4c/4B/4A/4B/>)c/ |”tr”A4e2 :|
AB | c>d (e/d/e/)f/ g3a | (g/a/g/)e/ (g/e/)(d/c/) b2 “tr”d>c | (B/d/e/^f/ g)e (dB)(AB) | G3A (B/c/d) “tr”(c>B) |
(c/4/d/4c/4B/4c/>)d/ (B/4c/4B/4A/4B/>)c/ A3E | (AB) (c/B/c/d/) e2 “tr”dc | (de)(ga) g”tr”(f/e/) (d/f/e/)^G/ | “tr”A4e2 :|

X:4
T:Catherine Ogie
M:2/4
L:1/8
R:March
S:Morison – Highland Airs and Quicksteps, vol. 2, No. 43 (c. 1882)
Z:AK/Fiddler’s Companion
K:A Minor
e/d/ |: BA AG/A/ | BA AB/c/ | de/d/ BA/B/ | G>A Be/d/ | BA AG/A/ | BA Ag |
ag/e/ d/e/g/d/ | BA Ae/d/ :| de/^f/ gf/g/ | ae ea | g/^f/e/d/ e/f/g/B/ | G>ABe |
de/^f/ gf/g/ | ae ea | g/^f/e/d/ e/f/g/d/ | BA Ae/^f/ | de/^f/ gf/g/ | ae ea |
g/^f/e/f/ e/f/g/B/ | G>ABe | cB/c/ dc/d/ | e^f/g/ a>f | g/^f/e/d/ e/f/g/B/ | BA A2 ||

............
I have given up on the sheet music for The Red Rose Cafe. I know you said you couldn't learn things by ear (I'm not good at it either), but if you got so you could sing the words along with those fellows and you did that a lot of times so it was in your head totally, like you could whistle it, I bet you could get the tune from the recording. It is a neat recording and I was glad to learn about that song. I also came across a solo piping CD by Finbar Furey which I had been hoping to find, so I benefitted from the search---if I can find it again! :lol:
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
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Cynth
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Post by Cynth »

Someone sent me some info about Petrus Kartner and I found a little more here. It is a song from the Netherlands. Petrus Kartner is better known as Pierre Kartner and also as Father Abraham. Don Black translated the English version of the lyrics. The article below was translated from German by Google, so it is a little unclear in spots.

Image
"On 11 April 1935 at 19.00 o'clock saw Petrus Antonius Laurentius Kartner in the Netherlands Elst the light of the world. Its rufname became Pierre.

Pierre had written the number Vader Abraham Had Zeven zones (father Abraham had seven sons) for the Karnaval. There was however no interpreter, who could represent the Song adequately. And as Rinus Spoor of the VARA this song in its TV Show ' Een laugh absolute EN Een Traan ' (a laughter and a tear) to have wanted, decided (with lord Wanhoop in the back of the head) Pierre to disguise in such a way like the Biblical figure father of the Abraham. Together with the Amsterdamer cutter Michels was sketched and adapted a Outfit. In order to animate the background something, Pierre called its friends, who should represent the sons. Pierre's beard was still glued to at that time, but its genuine beard had fast grown.

Pierre Kartner had its international break-through as text he composer producer 1976-1977. Its masterpiece in Het small Café Aan De Haven had by the way grown one year long in Pierre's thought, before it took up it finally. 1976 became the Song in the Netherlands a hit. Peter Alexander, the German-speaking superstar, heard this number, had her translated by Michael Kunze and it became from it Peter's all-largest hit in Germany, No. 1 in all hit lists and besides the usually most sold single in Germany in the year 1976 (German title: The small tavern) .

The English translation made by the way Don Black, the producer and Songschreiber among other things was for franc Sinatra, Michael Jackson, Olivia Newton John, the various James bond Filmmusiken wrote and various of musical."

Here are the original lyrics in Dutch:

HET KLEINE CAFE AAN DE HAVEN
De avondzon valt over straten en pleinen
De gouden zon zakt in de stad
En mensen die moe in hun huizen verdwijnen
Ze hebben de dag weer gehad
De neonreclame die knipoogt langs ramen
Het motregent zachtjes op straat
De stad lijkt gestorven, toch klinkt er muziek
Uit een deur die nog wijd open staat

Refrein:
Daar in dat kleine cafe; aan de haven
Daar zijn de mensen gelijk en tevree
Daar in dat kleine cafe; aan de haven
Daar telt je geld of wie je bent niet meer mee

De toog is van koper toch ligt er geen loper
De voetbalclub hangt aan de muur
De trekkast die maakt meer lawaai dan de jukebox
Een pilsje dat is er niet duur
Een mens is daar mens, rijk of arm, 't is daar warm
Geen messjeu of madam, maar W.C.
Maar 't glas is gespoeld in het helderste water
Ja, 't is daar een heel goed cafe
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
Spanishwhistler
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Post by Spanishwhistler »

It is a bit sketchy in translation, but I was able to pick it up perfectly. Anybody who speaks German or Dutch (which helped me) should have no problem. Definitely a good background on the song. Thank you Cynth!
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ChristianRo
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Post by ChristianRo »

:boggle: AAARGH! Ear cancer! Ear cancer! Image

Der Abend senkt sich auf die Dächer der Vorstadt,
Die Kinder am Hof müssen heim.
Die Krämersfrau fegt das Trottoir vor dem Laden,
Ihr Mann trägt die Obstkisten rein.
Der Tag ist vorüber, die Menschen sind müde,
Doch viele gehen nicht gleich nach Haus.
Denn drüben klingt aus einer offenen Türe,
Musik auf den Gehsteig hinaus.

Die kleine Kneipe in unserer Strasse,
Da wo das Leben noch lebenswert ist.
Dort in der Kneipe in unserer Strasse,
Da fragt dich keiner, was du hast oder bist.

Die Postkarten dort an der Wand in der Ecke,
Das Foto vom Fußballverein,
Das Stimmengewirr, die Musik aus der Jukebox,
All das ist ein Stückchen daheim.
Du wirfst eine Mark in den Münzautomat,
Schaust andern beim Kartenspiel zu.
Und stehst mit dem Pils in der Hand an der Theke,
Und bist gleich mit jedem per Du.

Die kleine Kneipe ...

Man redet sich heiß und sprich sich von der Seele,
Was einem die Laune vergellt.
Bei Korn und bei Bier findet mancher die Lösung,
Für alle Probleme der Welt.
Wer Hunger hat, der bestellt Würstchen mit Kraut,
Weil es andere Speisen nicht gibt.
Die Rechnung, die steht auf dem Bierdeckel drauf,
Doch beim Wirt hier hat jeder Kredit.

Die kleine Kneipe ...
Die kleine Kneipe ...

Now, doesn't that water your eyes, Bloomfield?
Christian
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