flat B

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:11 pm

I have managed to iron out all tuning discrepancies in my D chanter save one: the B in both octaves(though more noticably the first) is, while not hugely, easily heard to be flat. What should I do to sharpen this note a few cents?

thanks,
Jack Devereux

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:15 pm

Jack, are you testing it against a tuner? The B *should* be somewhat flat: 15.64 cents flat against an equal temp. tuner to be exact. The B is the 'flatest' sounding note on the chanter actually. How far off are you?

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:18 pm

I despise electronic tuners

, so I tune against the other notes on the chanter, and the drones. I'm not really sure how flat it is, but not a whole lot, just enough to be irritating.

thanks,
Jack

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:42 pm

I'd check it against the tuner just to get a baseline and see where it's falling. If you're 40-50 cents off, there's something going on with the reed most likely. have you had better luck with a different reed or is this your only one?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:09 am

Try another reed. If several reeds by different makers yield the same flat B, you should have the maker tune the note up. This is usually done by undercutting the hole upwards. Don't undercut it yourself based on one or two reeds.

Ted

nemethmik · Post by **nemethmik** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:24 pm

Brian Lee wrote:The B *should* be somewhat flat: 15.64 cents flat against an equal temp. tuner to be exact. The B is the 'flatest' sounding note on the chanter actually. How far off are you?

Interesting; my chanter's B is a perfect B according to my tuner and I can play along with the tutorial videos of Sean Og Potts (MadForTrads) and Gay Mc Keon (NPU). However, I cannot play along with the tunes on the H.J.Clarke tutorial CD: Clarke's B is very flat. Maybe Clarke's B is the correct one?

Miki

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:27 pm

Don't go second guessing yourself. IMHO, if your B sounds just fine with you, leave it where it plays. Start monkeying around with it or the reed, you could lose that note.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:38 pm

nemethmik wrote:Interesting; my chanter's B is a perfect B according to my tuner and I can play along with the tutorial videos of Sean Og Potts (MadForTrads) and Gay Mc Keon (NPU). However, I cannot play along with the tunes on the H.J.Clarke tutorial CD: Clarke's B is very flat. Maybe Clarke's B is the correct one?

Miki

Miki,

There is a comparison chart that gives the variance of equal temperment vs. just intonation on our site:

http://www.uilleann.org/Reeds.html

So unless your tuner has the capacity to switch between these two modes (and some of the fancier ones do), then your B should be a bit flat. Also, if you have drones, check it against them as well, as that can tell you fairly quickly if you're in the ballpark or not. An equal temperment B will sound sharp and will 'wobble' against the D drone.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:23 pm

Screw the tuner. If it sounds good with the drones and in tune to your ear, that should be good enough. A note that sounds flat to your ear is probably flat. It is too easy to be a slave to a tuner. I use a tuner to make sure bottom D is in tune. I tune the drones to the D and recheck it with the tuner. I then shut off the tuner and use my ear and check the tuning of other notes with the drones. Play some music and listen. That is as far as I will use a tuner. Tune the regs with the chanter at playing pressure. I have seen pipers tune every note to the tuner and sound out of tune when actually playing. Train your ear to hear in or out of tune notes. The tuner is an unnecessary step, just as are dots (written music) not needed to learn the music. Your ear should be the final judge.

Ted

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:32 pm

Liam O'Flynn was asked to play his Rowsome chanter over twenty years ago with a tuner there (he couldn't see it). His B was 20 cents flat.

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:06 pm

Thank you, Ted, I could not agree more. Is there no quick and easy solution? (the equivalent of tape, but with the opposite effect?)

thanks,
Jack Devereux[/quote]

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:35 pm

JD, just how much of a noticable problem is it for you? Your earlier post seemed to hint that you hadn't noticed it before... unless I have it wrong.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:53 pm

You mentioned you had sorted out other tuning issues and were left with a flat B note. What did you do with other issues and what were they? The solution to a consistently flat note, with a number of different reeds, is surgury on the chanter. Who made it? Is the B still flat if you undo the other adjustments? Surgury is a last resort and I recommend the maker to do it, if it is really indicated. It may not need surgury. If it does, it is a simple process to undercut the flat hole.

Ted

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:05 am

This is a fairly new problem, as Joseph mentioned. The chanter was made by Peter Hunter and the reed by Pat Sky. The reed has had quite a bit of hard use, and is not in great shape, so thats probably what the problem is. I probably ought to order a new reed, but am loathe to ($$$)
thanks,
Jack

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:14 am

You may want to consider cleaning the reed. In one of the more recent topics brought up by Beckitybeck (http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=27891), there are ways to do this without damaging the reed (though caution is always a good way to proceed). I'd consider this prior to shelling out mucho bucks on a new one.

This does not sound like a chanter issue.