Rockstro on holding and aligning the flute

[Terry McGee]

Rockstro is one of the major sources of information on 19th century flute playing methods. I've extracted his information on how the flute was aligned and gripped in the days our style of flute was in at its peak. Makes for some surprising reading:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Rocksto_on_ ... flute.html

Read it with your flute in hand so you can actually try out what he recommends (er, insists!).

Terry

[peeplj]

I had to start using a similar grip when I had active arthritis in my hands.

The arthritis is in remission (MTX isn't a nice medicine to take but it did work wonders) but I still use this grip as it is very comfortable for me on even very heavy flutes like my 6-key M&E.

One thing that did stick in college--amid any number of things that didn't--was when Dr. Steinquest told me you don't "grip" a flute, and you certainly don't "hold it up."

I like "balancing" better--you balance a flute, and it's even better when flute and body are "in balance," which basically means everything is relaxed and you're not expending any particular effort to keep the flute in a playing position.

I like the "Rockstro" approach--in particular, I like that it frees up the left thumb, which otherwise is necessary to grip the flute and is hampered in its use of the B-flat touch.

I also use this approach on the Boehm flute and find it works quite well for that instrument as well.

--James

[chas]

I have occasional arthritis problems; I think I hold the flute largely the way Larsen suggests -- with five points (lip, base of left index finger, both thumbs and RH pinky). I sometimes find that my right pinky really bothers me, though. So this three-point grip is really appealing.

Lemme see if I have it straight -- the TIP (or something very close to it) of the RH thumb goes about midway up the circumference of the flute and the finger holes, between holes RH1 and RH2, correct? This requires that the RH fingers are nearly straight, and works best with a flute with a joint between the hands so that the right hand can be rotated away from the player a little.

This, of course, feels very awkward to me since I've always played differently. Also, one of my flutes just doesn't give much traction, so the thumb, with its very small area of contact, keeps slipping. I'll try a little chapstik or something to give a little traction.

[Terry McGee]

I also use this approach on the Boehm flute and find it works quite well for that instrument as well.--James

And certainly it should. Indeed, by the time of Rockstro's book, he was playing a modified Boehm system.

And, yes Chas, more or less the tip but tending a little further away from the nail, with the thumb bent backwards. Nicholson actually made a flat at this point of the flute and put some sealskin to eliminate any risk of slippage, but Rockstro doesn't seem to find this necessary. Players using poly flutes today sometimes use a piece of bicycle tubing over the flute at that point, as the poly surface is naturally more slippery than wood. I've experimented with a patch of sandpaper held on with double sided carpet tape - that works brilliantly, but I find I don't actually need it.

I also don't think it's an all or nothing thing. I usually start a session with my thumb more underneath, but it finds its way up the side as I settle in.

The big attraction seems to me to be the freedom it permits the right hand fingers. I still curve them, apart from R3.

Terry

[jim stone]

Helpful thread.

I'm using this, however I'm often keeping R3 down
to steady the flute. A good deal of the time, therefore,
R3 is dancing about--I did this playing the whistle.
I'm not quite steady without this added
support.

Also my rt thumb is just to the left of
R1, not between R1 and R2.

Also, I find that I get no advantage
in rotating the right hand section away
from me.


Advice welcome, in fact. I've worked like
the devil to try to hold flutes well,
and feel I've not quite succeeded yet.

A great advantage of this, of course,
is that the right pinky is free to
use the Eb key.

[treeshark]

I've been experimenting with this all week, since Terry posted Mr N's words and find a big plus is to be able to vary the pressure on the rh thumb you can sort of push out the high notes which makes octave jumping a smoother affair. I certainly helps one exercise where I use a bottom octave note as a pedal and then run through the upper octave scale, I've had a problem getting the pedal note to be centered which this makes easier.

[chas]

This is all very helpful. I'm trying to make a few changes at once. The other, partially as a result of the Nicholson posting of Mr. McGee's (thanks for that one, too) -- I had been pushing on my lower lip with my tongue, mostly in the second and third octaves. I had realized this was a bad habit and been trying to break it before reading Nicholson's thoughts, but those reinforced it.

All this is happening when I'm recovering from bronchitis, which is probably good. I can only play for a few minutes at a time, which will make it less likely that I'll slip back into old habits, but it does make for really slow going.

I have a few lessons coming up with a very good teacher; I'll let him see me play and see what he has to say about the relative merits of these things with respect to me specifically, esp. given my goals of branching out from ITM eventually.

[Terry McGee]

As I've probably mentioned, I normally start a session with my thumb more underneath and then find it slipping up into this 19th century three-point hold as the night progresses. Last night though I resolved to take the matter head on and start with the three point grip. I think I pushed too hard at first, I was feeling the pressure in my right thumb by the end of the first set. So either I backed off, or the problem resolved and I played that way for the next two hours or so with no feelings of stress anywhere. No slips either.

I did turn the right hand section of my flute out a bit (nothing like the 45 degrees Nicholson's flutes are marked - more like 5 to 10 degrees). That seemed to keep all the forces in their optimal planes, so it's definitely worth playing with too. I felt that my left hand could relax entirely (apart from the inward pressure from the L1 knuckle, but that force comes from the arm and not the hand). Certainly my left thumb was completely free to wander around at will. My right hand fingers felt much more relaxed too. Even the right thumb seemed much happier, once I'd gotten over the tendency to push too hard. Definitely worth trying, especially if you are currently plagued by cramps or restricted finger mobility.

Do try different degrees of rotation of the body versus the head, and if you have a two piece body, of the two sections of body.

Thanks for the encouraging remarks about making this 19th century stuff available, I'll have some more for you soon. It would seem surprising to me if there were not some good things to learn from the 100 years golden era of the 8-key flute!

Terry

[BoneQuint]

I'd like to see a few pictures of this grip. I have a hard time picturing it.

[Lambchop]

Oh, Lord help us! I'm doing something right!

I thought I'd ended up there because my thumbs and pinkies were too short.

Your efforts, Terry, are appreciated from my corner, as well. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Terry McGee]

I'd like to see a few pictures of this grip. I have a hard time picturing it.

I should have a go at taking an image, but in the meantime see if you can imagine this.

Left hand standard grip (ie not piper's style). Right hand normal (ie not piper's style) excepting that instead of right thumb underneath, the tip of the right thumb points into the centre of the flute as if attempting to spear it.

With the thumb underneath in the usual way, the tendancy is to squeeze the flute between fingers and thumb - this force coming from the thumb muscles and causing cramping of these. With the thumb pointing into the side of the flute, and because the thumb is much shorter than the fingers, the fingers are free and the hand can relax.

If you find that the flute wobbles too much when you move the right hand fingers, try increasing the amount the head is turned in relative to the body of the flute, but then turn it out more against the lip, so that the embouchure ends up where it normally is, but the left elbow is closer to the chest and the right finger holes are now a bit more on the audience side. The finger holes now oppose the thumb again, but the force is on the tip of the thumb and not the side, and so are not demanding effort from the thumb muscles.

Terry

[norseman]

Thanks again Terry! I had been heading in this direction in my flute hold, and this info was very helpful. Grey Larsen's book talks about this a little, but this was a much clearer description.

Bob

[Wormdiet]

I've had a about a week to try out different approaches.

On the lower hand I've been using a piper's grip with absolutely no problems, quick, articulations, balanced. But I'm a recovering GHBer, so that's no surprise. The nice thing about GHB fingerings is that you;ve always got at least one finger from the lower hand on the chanter. This translates well to flute; the pinky works wonderfully for stablizing during upper hand passages.

The upper hand has been a challenge. I started off using a "piper's grip" here too. Fingers fairly flat across the tube, holes covered by second or third finger bone, depending. Thumb placed in a "hitchhiker" position, tip on the outside, pushing the tube to the chin. At the moment, when I play this style I find it severely limits my dexterity for r3. . . very tough to to rolls and the like. There's a lot of strain in my hand caused by that ring finger.

On the other hand, the "rockstro" puts the tension on the index finger. . . I'm used to moving the whole finger. For me, the Rockstro forces the motion to come from the second knuckle in, which isn't natural.

SO I think I am going to give both styles a shot and see what works best.