what's your secret?

nitterwhiskers · Post by **nitterwhiskers** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:45 am

I am having problems producing nice clear tones in the second octave, this is especially the case when moving up from the low notes. Even when I am playing quite slowly I can have this problem - I wonder if I should be using tonguing when moving up?

Also I've come across the term 'hard d' from time to time, can anyone tell me what is it and how to get it?

Would appreciate any advice you might have.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:23 pm

It takes time. Many of us have been playing flutes for over 25 years.

Hard D: It's really an ornament done on the uillean pipes, but when people talk about this on the flute, the general idea seems to be to hit a loud low D from a cut on the G. There's something about slapping your fingers down that helps the low note come out strong.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:56 pm

SEcond this, it takes time.
You might tongue to get into the second octave,
but sooner or later you won't need to.

Also I associate the hard D not only with
the cut on G, but with a hard sound one
gets by blowing the D note focused endough that the note is 'dancing between
the octaves.' Welcome correction if this is mistaken. Best

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:19 pm

Nitterwhiskers, if you're playing with ITM style in mind, a cut or a tap can also help lauch you into the second octave especially if you're going from, say, G to g.

Example with a tap (hold the G for a bit, and then do a tap while focusing your embouchure to jump to g):

G...(F#)g...

Makes for a cleaner transition, and you get an ornament into the bargain. For me, taps do the job best

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:45 pm

Try this exercise: blow a low D, then gradually tighten your embouchure, possibly blowing a little more across as opposed to into the hole, until you get the second octave D. Then tighten a little more till you get the second octave A, third octave D, and possibly another note. It's important NOT to move any more air; you don't get the upper octave by blowing your brains out, but by focussing the air stream.

This exercise helped me a whole lot. Now I have trouble staying in the lower octave as often as I have trouble staying in the upper octave.

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:59 am

Yes, unless you can come to some kind of arrangement with the fairies it's best to practice and practice and it will come eventually. As someone mentioned you shouldn't need to blow your brains out, just focus your airstream. Just practice different notes and experiment with your embouchure. Don't give up and it'll come. Myself I used to have problems with the low E & D, couldn't get them to sound strongly, consistently, but now I have them (most of the time that is).

Bretton · Post by **Bretton** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:08 am

I get a good tone up until high e/f but high g and up I still have trouble with. I can even do all the different harmonics on D (low d, middle d, high d, and the a that's in there somewhere). I had an easier time with it on the Casey Burns Folk Flute (I'm playing a PVC flute now). We'll see how the Schultz flute is when it gets here. If it's easier (like the CBFF) then maybe it's just the flute I'm currently playing that's giving me trouble.

-Brett

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:07 pm

Two other things to check, perhaps:

1) Make sure you haven't rolled in so much to get the low octave that you're stuck when you go to the middle;

2) Make sure you're not pressing the flute too hard into your lip.

Okay, three things, actually ....

Practice octave jumps.

(And yes, they probably will be ugly at first.)

Best of luck!

cat.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:27 pm

Try protruding your lower lip a bit when playing the second octave (sort of a pouting face).

Doc

mcelvogue · Post by **mcelvogue** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:33 pm

Hi,
a couple of suggestions to try.

Try practising for a while in front of a mirror and take note of how your embouchure changes when you play the low octave and the high octave. I have just done this and what I seem to be doing is pushing the bottom lip slightly out to get the high octave and then moving it back again for the lower octave. This involves a movement of about 2 or 3 millimetres.

Concentrate on getting a better sound not neccesarily a louder sound. I often practice tonal exercises whereby I try to play as quietly as I can while maintaining a clear (and in tune) tone. I also find it a helpful breath control exercise.

Additionally, practice arpeggios moving between the two octaves.

Good luck and I hope this is helpful.

Regards,
Tom McElvogue

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:26 am

Here's another tip on lip position we discussed some time ago. It was quite helpful to me.

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... =smash+lip

Cheers,

Doc

nitterwhiskers · Post by **nitterwhiskers** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:10 pm

Thanks for all your really useful and informative advice - i've been able getting a much better tone since I put some of your suggestions into practice. Incidentally I came across an article by Paul Mulvaney on woodenflute.com that appears to answer my query on what a hard d is. Here is his answer "Be aware that the bottom D on any Irish flute is stereotypically flat; this is deliberate --- the Irish call it "the hard D"".

Thanks again

nitters