"I don't play them. I just make them"

[Bloomfield]

Pardon me, Serpent/Billw for using your quote here in the topic. I don't mean to harp on it, but it's the clearest statment of the proposition I'm after.

Jetboy (maker of Weston Whistles), put it this way in response to a Peter Laban (a very fine whislteplayer):

OK briefly,I am convinced you can make a decent instrument when you're not a great player but you're not likely make a great instrument when you're not a great player because you won't be able to appreciate firsthand the finer points a great player will be looking for. Now back to topic.

Nah, sorry, that's still bollocks. A whistle is a whistle is a whistle. They are all identical in principle, just differ in quality. A great player can make a mediocre whistle sing, a good whistle operatic. It is the player that makes the finer points really, not the whistle, which is why, as I said before, great players like Mary Bergin can make a cheap whistle sound fantastic. A mediocre player can still appreciate the finer points of playing without being able to recreate it, and can therefore make a whistle that can perform well in the right hands. I have made instruments that sound like a car exhaust when I blow it but put inthe hands of a professional and they become another instrument entirely.

I still need to be convinced.......

Jessie Driscoll, our resident whistle Diva agrees with jetboy:

I happen to believe that a mediocre whistle player is capable of making a great whistle.

A great little topic, given the wonderful fact that the price of a whistle and it's quality are hardly related at all.

[irishduffy]

OH!!! Here we go again. Fasten seat belts.

[Cayden]

I was thinking of bows for the fiddle/violin. They are al lthe same in principle but they vary in quality, but don't you need to be soem player to be able to balance a great bow in the making?. I think that holds true for all instruments .

[Jeff Guevin]

If it sheds any light on the issue, I can neither play well nor make a good whistle.

[Jayhawk]

First, I know Bill plays - I heard him play at a renaissance festival last fall. He sounded better in person than those clips on his site. That was the only time I've ever met Bill, and it's been long enough ago that I couldn't really tell you much about his playing other than it wasn't as wooden as the recordings.

As for making a good instrument yet not playing at all, I think that would be hard. However, I do think a mediocre player could make a great instrument provided they had access to a good player who'll give honest feedback. I'd argue design, knowledge of materials, the physics of sound as well as shop skills are infinitely more important than playing ability.

Eric

[Bloomfield]

I know a top-notch Irish Trad whistle player. We talk about whistles a lot and sometimes I bring him new whistles to try. When he tries a whistle, he'll take it through two or three minutes of lightening fast crans on the low D and E (and other stuff, too). If the crans don't sound crisp and clean, he's not much interested. He calls it responsiveness. Seems to me I'd want to be able to test my whistle's responsivenes if I made my own whistle. Seems to me also that I'd have a hard time of it, if I can't even play a cran or rolls or other stuff characteristic of IrTrad (or whatever sort of music it is you'd exect to be able to play on the whistle).

[dubhlinn]

I don't recall ever seeing any reference to Antonio Stradivarius actually playing the Violin though some would reckon he made a decent one.


Slan,
D.

:roll:

[blackhawk]

So the question is, can a mediocre player make a good whistle? Well, is mediocre better than a crap player? Because I have heard (as have many of us) that Terik used to say that she was a "crap player." Bloomfield, if Teri made whistles, would you hesitate to buy one? Because I surely wouldn't hesitate to buy one, having heard Teri play. So who decides who is a mediocre player?

This is not a defense of Bill's whistle playing, merely a request for definitions of playing ability as it relates to machine shop skills.

[irishduffy]

I don't recall ever seeing any reference to Antonio Stradivarius actually playing the Violin though some would reckon he made a decent one.


Slan,
D.

:roll:

A strada-watcha-ma-call-it was that dubhlinn.

[dubhlinn]

T'was.

Slan,
D.

[Loren]

A great little topic, given the wonderful fact that the price of a whistle and it's quality are hardly related at all.

Aww c'mon dude, that's generalizing a bit much even for my taste Seriously, would you honestly say the above statement holds true for an Abell, Grinter, or Overton whistle?!?

Interesting topic indeed though.

Loren

[fearfaoin]

Seems to me I'd want to be able to test my whistle's responsivenes if I made my own whistle.

Just seems to me that you would have to be able to have your
creation's responsiveness tested... doing it yourself may be a time-saver,
but is not a requirement.

It works well enough in large engineering firms: one team designs something,
another team tests it. Heck, I don't like to test my own (computer hardware)
designs: I tend to make the same assumptions when testing as when I was
designing, so I can miss problems that an independent tester would have caught.

It can work like this with whistle making, too: if you are the only one who tests your
whistle, then it is only deemed good according to your playing style. Even if you're a
wonderful player, there will be another wonderful player who can't stand your whistle.
If you're going for widespread appeal (mmmm... profits...) then you should get
feedback from lots and lots of good players, and refine your designs accordingly.
If you do this with enough different players, then your own test-playing becomes
somewhat moot: it is a drop in the river of testers. Therefore, I submit that even if
you can only test as well as any mediocre player can, but you use the input of
many good players, then you can be a great whistle maker.

And since there are people with excellent technical/mechanical skill and design
ability who do not have accompanying musical prowess, and since there are
even more incredible whistlers who couldn't use a screwdriver, I don't see why
there'd be a problem with working together...

[vomitbunny]

"I don't make monkeys, I just train them."
Pee Wee Herman

[Bloomfield]

So the question is, can a mediocre player make a good whistle? Well, is mediocre better than a crap player? Because I have heard (as have many of us) that Terik used to say that she was a "crap player." Bloomfield, if Teri made whistles, would you hesitate to buy one? Because I surely wouldn't hesitate to buy one, having heard Teri play. So who decides who is a mediocre player?

This is not a defense of Bill's whistle playing, merely a request for definitions of playing ability as it relates to machine shop skills.

Oh, Blackhawk, funny that you mention TeriK. Nice enough as a person, I guess, but really couldn't play worth sh*t. Said she was a "crap" player, did she? Well, she was always a bit stuck up on herself and fond of exaggerating her skill.  But it is sad, really, with another 10 years' hard work she could have been mediocre, for sure. Didn't have the guts for it though: She did a clip of the Flogging Reel once, and started drinking heavily shortly after, no wonder. It was downhill from there, Blackhawk, I'm afraid. I'm not in touch with her anymore, and I doubt there is anything anyone can do for her now. She's taken up the accordion, I hear.

[Bloomfield]

A great little topic, given the wonderful fact that the price of a whistle and it's quality are hardly related at all.

Aww c'mon dude, that's generalizing a bit much even for my taste Seriously, would you honestly say the above statement holds true for an Abell, Grinter, or Overton whistle?!?

Interesting topic indeed though.

Loren

Hey those are brands, not prices. Of course I agree about the Grinter and Overton (not so sure about Abell, athough I played a simply wonderful Abell A the other day). What I mean is that even if you are willing to pay that amount of money, you can end up with a crappy whistle: Silkstones cost more than Overtons and are pretty much useless in my book. Abell, Grinter and Overton (CG) are probably the most consitent and reliable, but you can pay twice the price of an Overton and get an unplayable Copeland (yes, he'll take it back, I know). On the other hand, pay $8 for Generation or a Clarke and you may get a fast, beautiful musician's whistle. It's odd that way, is all I'm saying.