Jerry Freeman wrote:I have an older version (2.46) of the Tuner_e Japanese tuner freeware that provides both equal and just displays side by side. For some reason, the newest version (2.50) of that software doesn't have the just intonation feature.
Try G-tune, it's well worth the $25 shareware registration cost.
Absolutely amazing bit of software... it does everything but butter your toast! http://www.jhc-software.com/gtune.htm
[Raindogs] The ones you see wanderin' around after a rain. Ones that can't find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants. – Tom Waits
It looks very good. I have to save my pennies for now, but I'll probably get G-Tune eventually. In the meantime, Tuner_e is working very well. The display is quite similar to G-Tune, but it looks like G-Tune does more things.
For what it's worth, here's an interesting experiment I did this morning. I took my C Generaton whistle and played a lower octave two fingers down, LH, into my piano tuning machine. Unlike the cheaper instrument tuners, this machine is extremely accurate and cost several hundred $$$ years ago. Depending on air pressure and embouchure, I could get the whistle to vary an extreme of about 40 cents, from -18 to +22. I could have gotten up to 55 cents but no one plays that softly.
So, I played a tune and held the same note when it came along...then adjusted the rotating light on the machine until it stopped...stopped mean right on. This was never the same twice...it also varied about 10-14 cents on the average. My tuner has both a coarse and fine tuning adjustment. I held the two finger note (LH) and adjusted the fine tuning with the free right hand.
Other notes, like 3 fingers down (LH), and the bottom C, also had similar variances.
I tried the Bb Generation whistle...same thing. The C Clark (conical) whistle...same thing.
Changing pressure from lower octave to higher octave, same note, caused a variation of about 16-24 cents between the two.
CENT - The 100th part of an Equal Tempered Semitone, and therefore the 1200th part of an Octave of 12 Equal Tempered Semitones.
Fixed instruments, like piano, are well suited for tuning machines. It's good to be aware that varying pitch instruments, like voice, whistles, recorders, flutes, and bagpipes...can vary (even with careful critical air flow) as much as the difference between Just and Equal.
I definitely agree with what you've posted here, Lorenzo.
As far as I'm concerned, whether you have a whistle in just or equal tuning, it's still up to you to get your pitches on target.
As I said before, you would still want a whistle that lends itself to the system you want. That may be why the Generation whistles (at least D; I haven't checked C or Bb) seem to come in as a sort of compromise on the notes where there's the most difference between the two tunings, so as to make it easy enough for someone who's sensitive to intonation to take it either way.
There was a "Mean Tone" scale popular for a while in the 16th, 17th, and half of the 18th centuries. Bach probably used it and it has to do with purer 3rds. My piano tuning book says Bach wrote a tune called "The Well Tempered Clavichord." This scale never really died out until about 130 years ago or so. The book said that some tunes from that era sounded lovely in that tuning, bringing out a certain character and tonalities.
You asked what tunings are used in what whistles. As I sit here tweaking some soprano D Shaws, the tuner shows them to be quite clearly in just intonation. Not an approximation between just and equal (as the Generations appear to be), but every note corresponding to just intonation. I can't speak for the other keys, but the high D's I've checked are.
Equal and Just temperament, important sometimes. But they are just theories.
For example, modern piano/midi piano can be tuned to equal temperament to about 99(or90or95? not sure) percent. But even piano/midi digital one can't be tuned perfectly to equal temperament. That's from my experiences and some piano tuners comments I talked to). I don't know why most tuners wont expose that kind of important part. trade secret?Not to confuse the general public? I dont know.But thats funny. We can say theres no piano tuned to equal temperament/neither just temp.,min tone comma,anything.
I disagree that temperaments are myth. They are systems of organization. Strings really vibrate at real Hertz - not mythical ones. Strings and synthesizers can be tuned to vibrate at specific wavelengths, impeded only by the accuracy of the tuning mechanism and measuring devices. The resulting sounds are empirical and verifiable, not mythical. Temperaments give us a way to organize the sound based upon specific dissonance and assonance. In many ways the acceptability of this sound is culturally specific, but hardly mythical.
If you haven't already done it, I would suggest you listen to some of the clips of just intonation and various temperaments posted in this thread. You really can hear the differences, and the sounds are very interesting.
ErikT wrote:I disagree that temperaments are myth. They are systems of organization. Strings really vibrate at real Hertz - not mythical ones. Strings and synthesizers can be tuned to vibrate at specific wavelengths, impeded only by the accuracy of the tuning mechanism and measuring devices. The resulting sounds are empirical and verifiable, not mythical. Temperaments give us a way to organize the sound based upon specific dissonance and assonance. In many ways the acceptability of this sound is culturally specific, but hardly mythical.
Hiro Ringo wrote:And IMO some makers and players won't talk about this myth because, they dont want their plays/instruments to be drawn into arguments about.....myth.
What did I want to say by this? Well, for those who dont like theory and math! Don't worry!! That's it
A theory is a common platform for organised communication.
Even the mythical hermit musician needs to communicate
with others for each day she is a new person.
