andreas rogge regulators, block V pin mounting

askmearse · Post by **askmearse** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:26 pm

I see from andreas rogges' site he has the choice of a pin mounting system or the tradition block mounting .He says the pin mounting system is maintenance free ,has anyone any ideas on block v. pin

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:12 pm

The big concern is the strength of the pin support system. Block mounting is time-tested. A refinement of block mounting for uilleann pipes has been to line the inside of the block mount (which tends to shrink and/or close up over time - sometimes) with a metal sleeve.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:21 pm

Lining the wooden block with a metal sleeve can also cause the block to crack or break off due to wood shrinkage.

Patrick.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:36 pm

I prefer block mounts for their appearance, but old ones can crack and fall off as I witnessed at a performance I was doing with a piper. A dab of superglue, though, and problem temporarily solved. Proponents of pin mounting suggest that pin mounts are stronger, but I think that depends on structural and design quality, and quality of installation. The keywork on my Williams flute are pin mounted, and bulletproof. On another flute of mine that has pin mounts, the result is less than excellent, with the pad ends tending to wander a bit, and some installation that might have benefitted from greater care, IMO. My longed-for Noy flute will have block mounts. It all depends on the maker, I think; one point against pin mounts for me is that resting my fingers on the pins is uncomfortable when I do it. Wood is more comfortable, and blocks don't jab at you like pin ends can.

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:17 pm

Pin mounts on flutes are time tested. Pin mounts should be OK for chanters due to infrequent usage. Pin mounts for regulators are suspect due to more use and abuse.

All of these discussions also highlight the challenge of integrating wood (a living material) with metal. Same situation for mounts and ferrules. The wood will shrink over time.

Piobairi Uilleann Inis Fa · Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:55 pm

I believe that Frommant puts a metal sleeve in the block (at least for chanter keys he does). I have not heard of any problems with cracking of the wooden blocks made by him ever. Has anyone else?

Neil

Greg Schnider · Post by **Greg Schnider** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:59 pm

I have seen one block broken off a Froment set. It was glued back on with superglue without problem.

askmearse · Post by **askmearse** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:26 pm

so no conclusive evidence either way

askmearse · Post by **askmearse** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:26 pm

so no conclusive evidence either way

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:07 am

Uilliam has a whole rake of Rogge sets, so he might have an opinion on it.

Or just ask Andreas. He'll give an honest opinion [since he would usually be the one to repair any problems].

My pin mounts on the regs seem to be hassle free....have had to footter with the pins in the chanter's block mounts on a couple of occasions.

Boyd

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:22 am

boyd wrote:Uilliam has a whole rake of Rogge sets, so he might have an opinion on it.

Or just ask Andreas. He'll give an honest opinion [since he would usually be the one to repair any problems].

My pin mounts on the regs seem to be hassle free....have had to footter with the pins in the chanter's block mounts on a couple of occasions.

Boyd

Only 4 actually Boyd

Honest opine as follows,
For looks Block mounts
for practicallity Pillar mounts
Why??
Wood being molecular will be more suspect to warpage?shrinkage..I had some drunk manage to spill some guiness on the regs of my D set which I play in pub sessions(thats all D sets are good for) although I immediately wiped the offending liquid off it still managed to split a block mount by the time I got home,luckily I managed to find the broken piece in my case and superglued it back.Of course the molecular structure of the wood will vary from species to species,Snakewood being the densest.
Pillar mounts on the other hand are virtually maintenance free,metal to metal and don't look that bad...anyways its the sound thats more important.
3 of my sets have block and the other pin..I play my flat sets for my own pleasure so the sets get treated with more love than my D set which is a pure workhorse.
I have all the time in the world so getting round to playing my wee collection is noe problem
Slan go foill
Liam

Fergmaun · Post by **Fergmaun** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:18 pm

My Rogge snakewood C set is pin mounted. I told Andreas at the time to make the regs block mounted but got pin mounted which I am happy with.

All my three chanters have block mounted key and some of the keys have sticked in the past.

All the best

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:40 pm

My Rogge D set has block-mounted regs.

WHen I asked them which to get they said the pin-mounted ones were a better design but I opted for the more traditional.

-Paul

bcpipes · Post by **bcpipes** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:15 pm

Here is a drawing of a regulator cross-section:

Note that the wood grain runs up and down the keymount. If it is done this way, it will never break off unless you want it to. The chanter is another matter. A fully keyed chanter, typically, has 2 keys on each side and one key on the back. I turn mine so that the C nat key has a cross grain, but all other mounts have a perpendicular grain. There is some risk of the C nat mount snapping. But, the chanter doesn't take a beating like the regulators sometimes do.

Not that I have anything against the v pin mounts. They are fantastically functional. I have thought about using them. But I have found that it is hard to find them in any form other than a "Clarinet replacement kit" or similar form. If anyone knows something I don't, about ordering a bunch of generic posts and pins, I would like to know.

Besides, I do find the wooden mounts more ellegant looking.

Cheers,
BC

The Sporting Pitchfork · Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:12 pm

Alas, I am regulatorless.

My chanter does have a pin mounted C nat. key though. I think it was the first chanter with pin mounts that Cillian ever did although I guess he's done a few more since (his assistant at the time was an ex-bassoon maker so making the pin mounts wasn't a problem). I like the action of pin-mounted keys a bit better than block mounted ones. They feel sturdier too. I know Cillian prefers to make crazy big "neo-Taylor style" block mounted keys for his chanters, but he'd probably do a pin-mounted one with a little bit of arm-twisting.