Chieftain blues. So disappointed. Is it just me?

[adamm]

OK - I really need some perspective here, friends. Situation is, I ordered an Overton Soprano D a month or so back on eBay. After I bought it, the seller informed me he was actually out of stock, and it might be up to 8 weeks before it showed up. As a consolation, he offered to send me a Chieftain "Gold" D to tide me over until the Overton arrived, which he said was very similar to the Overton. I accepted this kind offer, and tonight, the Chieftain arrived.

OK, I've been playing whistle for only about 6 months, but I have been playing various wind and brass instruments my whole life, including the trumpet, the tuba, the sax, and yes, the re***er. What I'm saying is, I have pretty good breath control. But I am having a real issue with this whistle, and now I'm worried, because if the Overton is like this, I'm not sure if I should have spent the money.

Let me explain what I'm experiencing with the Chieftain. The first thing that I noticed was that all the notes in the upper octave are *really* hard to sustain at any normal volume. The whistle seems to be resistant to playing high and clear and steady, that is, unless I am putting so much pressure into it that my ears feel like they're going to bleed from the sheer volume and shrillness.

This the first "expensive" soprano whistle I've bought. Meaning, the first one I spent over 15 bucks on. Here is a breakdown of what I've been playing, and the experience I'm having with them:

My first whistle was a Clark. That one actually remains my most favorite to play, but the sound is really breathy, and sometimes that's not really what I want. It's also not really accurate pitch-wise. I also have a Generation D. It apparently is one of those that will need "tweaking" - a project I have not undertaken yet. I also have a Walton little black whistle, which I really don't like - maybe I just got a bad one. I have various other cheap whistles, Sweetones, Acorns, etc - none of which I am too impressed with.

So for the most part, I play my Clark.

I wanted to get an Overton after reading plenty of excellent feedback about them in this group. What I wanted was a solid metal whistle, with a traditional sound, but that was made really well, and had a very accurate pitch for mixing into existing musical arrangements. I like some chiff, a pretty tone, and I like having a whistle that requires some back pressure. The Overton sounds perfect.

But what I'm realizing now is, I really want a whislte that is equally happy playing in the lower and upper registers. It doesn't necessarily have to be a quiet whistle, but I want the upper octave to feel natural, and not something I have to increase the volume for, or work especially hard to achieve. With the Cheiftain, when I go from a C# to the high D, it sounds almost like a different whistle. (Plus the high D is a little sharp).

My Clark glides so easily into the upper octave, and the sound is consistant.

I am of half a mind to be intimidated by this Cheiftain thingy, it being fairly expensive, and built by a well known maker. Normally, I would just assume it was my own inexperience that was the problem, and jus tsuck it up. But this time I'm jus too disappointed. I did so much research, and I waited what felt like months just to get this whistle...

I guess my question is, am I going to have this same experience with the Oveton? Meaning, are the Chieftain and the Overton really that similar?

Also, am I just barking up the wrong tree. Several whistlers I respect have always stuck with inexpensive whistles and seem to like them much better. And I've read the discussions about getting a "good" Generation. Unfortunately, all mine have been of the bad variety.

I really do love the feel of the Chieftain. I was so dissapointed when I realized that I wasn't getting the sound out of it I expected. If only I was interested in playing songs entirely in the lower octave, it would be great. Nice tone and control down there.

I guess what I want is everything. The perfect whistle. A nice, clear tone, easy access to two full octaves, solid state, pitch perfect, with character. Is that so much to ask....

Is there anyone out there who can give me some advice on what it is I need?

Thank you all,
Adam

[Wombat]

I guess my question is, am I going to have this same experience with the Oveton? Meaning, are the Chieftain and the Overton really that similar?

Adam, to your first question which is the only one I'm qualified to answer, no. I've never played a Chieftain and have no real interest in acquiring one. I have a bag full of Overtons.

I don't think you will experience the problems you mention although a standard Overton might have a bit more back pressure than you would like. That's not a problem. Ring Colin Goldie who'll be happy to build you an easy blower that has the Overton sound but lower back pressure. I found the breath requirements of normal Overtons fairly easy to adjust to having been a sax player, but they do require some adjustment. But ring Colin: he'll build you exactly what you want.

[Blackbeer]

Give it a week Adam. This is a very different whistle then you are use to.
Give it and yourself a chance..............

Tom

[adamm]

Thank you Wombat and Tom. It's been a few hours, and I'm much calmer now

Since I have already ordered the Overton, I imagine I would do best to give it a try (if and when it actually arrives). If, as you mentioned, Wombat, I find the back pressure requirements too great, I will take the route you suggest, and contact Mr. Goldie.

I have been giving the Chieftain some more attention tonight, and I've found a few interesting things already. One thing I noticed after some playing around is that I might have been playing it incorrectly, expecting it to respond like other whistles I've played. When I adjusted my breathing and attack, etc, I was able to find what I think is closer to the sound this whistle is designed to make. Playing like that, I was able to get it up to the high A with good control and a consistent sound. Any higher than the A I'm still having a problem. But still, it's an improvement, and that after only a few hours.

So I'm inclined to listen to Tom here and give this about a week before jumping to conclusions about this whistle, and I apologize if my previous charged sentiments offended any happy Chieftain owners out there

Who knows, this time next week I may be singing the praises of this thing. It certainly is beautiful to look at and hold. And now I'm starting to find its voice, I do like the sound it makes. It has a nice edge to it.

Thanks!
Adam

[Jens_Hoppe]

I guess my question is, am I going to have this same experience with the Oveton? Meaning, are the Chieftain and the Overton really that similar?

Well, I have played both Chieftain and Overton high Ds, and I will have to answer your question with a "yes".

Chieftain high Ds have an enormous amount of backpressure, and you really have to push it to make it go into the second octave, which ends up very loud (as you obviously noticed).

And, generally, the same applies to Overton high Ds. They might in general be a little easier to play (they certainly have a nicer tone), and Colin can make you an "easy blower" with less backpressure, but the fact remains that an Overton is much closer to a Chieftain in its playing characteristics than it is to a regular, plastic-mouthpiece cheap whistle.

That being said, don't give up on either Chieftain or Overton just yet! They are very much an acquired taste, and with your background (you mentioned trumpet and tuba!) they just might end to suit you very well, once you get used to them.


Jens

[chas]

I don't own Chieftains or Overtons, but I've played them side by side. I'm with Jens, the playing characteristics are similar, and they're bears when you first start out on them. I have several Harpers (also similar), and I find it difficult to switch back and forth among them and other whistles. But after half an hour or so, or a couple days of playing them exclusively, they're really wonderful.

Most high-end whistles do have higher resistance/backpressure than your average plastic-mouthpiece whistle, but Overton-style whistles are in general the highest. Also, there are some very hice whistles that don't have much more backpressure than cheapies. Burkes come to mind immediately. They're also not nearly as loud as Overtons.

[StewySmoot]

It is very tempting to just blow hard into a Chieftain to reach the second octave, and it will be loud and shrill. I can see why people compare it to a steam whistle.

I have found that embouchure is important with the Chieftains. It has a sweet spot and once you find it, you will find playing it to be a far more pleasant experience.

[jim stone]

My experience with the chieftain high d is that
it has a shrill, acrid high end. I prefer
Chieftains in lower keys. My suspicion is
that the Overton high D will have
similar features.

[Jens_Hoppe]

Wow! Jim's 3000th post...

[jim stone]

Thanks!

[IDAwHOa]

My wife and I had the opportunity to play an Overton High D and an Alba High D and C side by side for a couple of weeks. We were not able to compare any of the response type characteristics on ITM because we did not know any ITM songs at the time, but we were able to compare pressure, volume and other simple basic things.

The Alba is just as or nearly as loud as the Overton with a similar although not so chiffy a sound. The Alba had a low to medium back pressure while the Overton had a medium to high pressure especially in the upper range.

My wife decided that she likes the Alba better than the Overton. Would she have had a different opinion if we had more experience? Maybe, but we will try again in a year or two once we get there.

She would kill me if I got rid of my Overton Low D though! She says it is sexy and likes the way it makes her feel when I play it.

[markie-G]

I bought a Chieftain Low D whistle a couple of months ago and have been very pleased with it. As a couple of other people have said already, it's different than other whistles-- but I've found it to be very well in tune, easy to play, and with a very even tone. I just recieved a second one (for a student) yesterday, and it plays even better than mine. Personally, I really like the backpressure. I actually bought the first Chieftain just as a test-- I didn't feel like waiting or paying for an Overton, so I bought the Chieftain fully expecting to send it back. --Mark

By the way... 3,000 posts? Is that even possible?!?!? Only 2,999 to go!

[Claus von Weiss]

All I can recommend is: Go for the real thing! And that's the Overton, you ordered, not a Chieftain.
And I can't help the feeling, that this Ebay seller is simply trying to sell Chieftains through the backdoor, i.e. promising Overtons first, then being "out of stock". Sounds nasty, but things like that have happened before.
Maybe you should contact Colin Goldie, to find out if this seller (expecting Overtons in 8 weeks) is on his list at all.

Happy whistling anyway, Adam!

Cheers
Claus

[adamm]

Well, I feel a bit more encouraged now. StewySmoot's comments on embouchure make a lot of sense. I guess I never had to think much about embouchure because all the whistles I've played so far are pretty forgiving that way.

In a way, it's kind of exciting - by learning my way around this instrument, I will probably be developing my overall whistling skills more rapidly than I would with my Clarke. Now I have a challenge. I'll be looking forward to the day when I finally feel like I own the full range of this little guy.

I also found that the Chieftain was less forgiving of sloppy fingerwork. I guess I'll be improving there, too.

So if the Overton is similar to this, perhaps by the time it arrives, I will be ready to handle it, and be a better player for all the effort. Here's hoping

Thanks, everyone!
Adam

[The Weekenders]

Man am I missing something here? I thought when you sold something on Ebay, you actually had to have it! I don't get it.