Piping Terminology

[Uilliam]

I was wondering why nobody has picked up on the incorrect terminology used on the Regulators and Drones..Commonly and wrongly called Bass Baritone and Tenor.
If we take the Regs.Bass 1st..the lowest note on this is the G(assuming it is in the concert pitch of D)which is in the same register as the G string on a fiddle,which is of course a treble instrument ,and not a Bass.It is also the 2nd string of a Viola which is an Alto instrument.the Correct term for the Bass Regulator is therefore Alto Regulator
The so called Baritone and Tenor Regs should be correctly called Trebles.The Chanter is a Treble instrument and the middle register of the Violin(treble)both regulators cover the 1st register of the chanter so they are Trebles.
On to the drones.Bass.Baritone.Tenor-wrong again..as one octave seperates each pipe it should be Bass-Tenor -Treble.
Confused?? So are these...
Leo Rowsome in his Tutor terms
Drones.Bass.-Middle-Tenor
Regs Bass-Tenor-Treble(ist mention of treble)

Carke Tuto,Armagh Tutor and Vallelys Companion to Irish Music all use the following
Drones Bass-Baritone(1st mention of Baritone)-Tenor
Regs Bass -Baritone-Tenor

Clearly a difference betwixt Rowesome and the rest!!
It would be more correct to use the term Big Middle and Small on regulators and drones rather than the incorrect and confusing Baritone et al.

The terminology between flat and concert pitch sets also seems to be blurred.
Modern Concert Pitch(post pianoforte) is in D. C and Bb ,C and Bb are also concert pitch,although a lot of pipers erroneously think of C and Bb as flat sets.
Baroque Pitch(pre pianoforte) is C#(the D of its day) and B which are correctly termed flat sets,because they are flat of modern concert pitch.DCand Bb are not.
I hope this clears up any confusion ye may have had.
Roddy how is Belfast and yes it was a full moon last night.
Slan go foill
Liam

[djm]

Uilliam, there's no water like muddy water.

Leo's book was written in the 1930's, with terms cadged from some music primer. Clarke's book was written using current terminology used at NPU. Since bass, baritone, tenor are the common reference, and since pipers don't give a squirrel's a*** about orchestral liturgy, why interfere with a way of communicating that let's pipers know what each other is talking about?

Per various NPU articles, anything below current concert pitch D is a flat set. Current concert pitch C# was Old Philharmonic (OP) concert pitch D until mid-20th century. If you want to go back far enough, Baroque C was today's concert pitch B. Again, why interfere with a way of communicating that already let's pipers know what each other is talking about?

If we have to clarify every current term in historical lexical accuracy we wouldn't get anywhere. Or were you just stirring up s***?

djm

[Calum]

Concert pitch refers to the wide-bored-ness of the pipe, not to the frequency used. The story goes they were named concert sets as they were developed for the concert hall. I forget what pitch Taylors go at, but Rowsome's concert Ds don't actually pitch at modern D; he continued making sharp pitches long after the classical world stabilised on A=440.

As for drones and regs, I think everyone just wants something that's clear; bass baritone and tenor works for me, even if none of them are actually what classical musicians would describe as bass/bari/tenor.

Did any makers prior to the 20thC give a damn what the absolute pitch of their pipes was, in reference to *any* standard? I'd be curious to know this, actually.

Cheers,
Calum

[djm]

Concert pitch has nothing to do with bore size or even with uilleann pipes. It is a term used in reference to a standardized pitch for any instrument. I think people might get this confused with the story that wide bores were developed for increased volume to play in "concert" halls - not the same thing. If you don't like the interpretation, take the issue up with NPU.

djm

[Harry]

While we're clearing things up- shouldn't we dispense with all this new fangled 'Uilleann' pipes nonsense!

It's UNION pipes or Irish bag pipes....... or Jacintha.

Be it from the Act of Union (the biggest no no!), the union of regulator and chanter, or the union of man and sheep for that matter.

I mean have we nothing better to call this noble beast than after the hairy, bald and often unwashed wrinkly knuckle that drives it?!

Your glúin-ily, H.

[Calum]

Yes, what I said was rather misleading - in short, be wary of meanings applied to the term 'concert pitch set'; it might mean it tunes to a perfect D, or it might mean it's a wide bore set, or it might mean both.

Cheers,
Calum

[boyd]

I've always found that
"the big one, the wee one and the one in the middle"
is a highly accurate yet user-friendly terminology.

Works for the drones as well as the regs.

Boyd

[brianc]

...or the union of man and sheep for that matter.

Dublin Harry
..............


Wait - I thought that had more to do with why the Scotsmen wear kilts....?

[Lorenzo]

I thought we settled this last year. It's an octopus...an ongoing battle between man and beast.

[Nanohedron]

...the hairy, bald and often unwashed wrinkly knuckle...

[Harry]

My point entirely. Where does the bald elbow end and the hairy arm begin? (yes, it was a mistake).... quantify 'elbow'. I'm sure there may be more specific medical opinions, but then there are the much more useful (as they are much more often used) common ones.

You don't have to worry of course if it keeps making your arm bend.

Actually, there was/is still maybe a bar in Belfast on the Dublin Road (which doesn't go to Dublin) called "The Elbow". The olde worldy sign at the front had an entire muscular, hairy arm complete with rolled up lumberjack sleeve........ the Basmatis.

Regards, Harry.

[djm]

Does this mean I don't have to feel too bad when my set goes baa-a-a-a?

[Uilliam]

Or were you just stirring up s***?

djm

Hello Lol,
Au Contraire Dear Boy As there is an unprecedented interest in the instrument worldwide with more and more folk looking at the minutae(take this forum for example)then it is beholden on us to be as accurate as possible.
This becomes more important when ye are talking to a classical musician,and why shouldnt ye talk to them!The fact that it has been misquoted for so long doesn't make it right does it?
NPU was set up by pipers for pipers and the thirst for knowledge was and is great.NPU has developed along the years by receiving information from its members who are like you and me(well I am a member)so, far from muddy waters I am in fact trying to clean the pond , twas a full moon and I was feeling bored.
Liam

[Uilliam]

Concert pitch refers to the wide-bored-ness of the pipe, not to the frequency used. The story goes they were named concert sets as they were developed for the concert hall. I forget what pitch Taylors go at, but Rowsome's concert Ds don't actually pitch at modern D; he continued making sharp pitches long after the classical world stabilised on A=440.

As for drones and regs, I think everyone just wants something that's clear; bass baritone and tenor works for me, even if none of them are actually what classical musicians would describe as bass/bari/tenor.

Did any makers prior to the 20thC give a damn what the absolute pitch of their pipes was, in reference to *any* standard? I'd be curious to know this, actually.

Cheers,
Calum

Calum best to think a bit afore ye fire off at me!
Ye don't have to be a classical musician to ask if something is correct,would that Jumbo of yours fly as well if all the instruments were renamed and confusing??
As for the makers giving a damn,I am sure they did otherwise ye would have pitch of all sorts all over the place(bit like some of todays makers)
Liam :roll:

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

I was wondering why nobody has picked up on the incorrect terminology used on the Regulators and Drones.

Maybe no one cares? For drones I say that I've got to tweak the reed in my cigarette holder, or telescope, or bigass bendy-wendy pipe.
Timothy Kenna, in an 1802 newspaper advertisement refers to "unison" and "pupilow" regulators; or perhaps a "chanter" regulator, the wording isin't clear on this. I think his terms were chanter, unision, and pupilow regulators, and since Kenna's father stamped his pipes "Original Inventor" I think we can now disregard such uninformed arrivistes as Leo Rowsome and Fintan Valley. And think of the looks you'll get from fiddlers when you tell them that your pupilow's low tones are farting!