Why are Irish sessions so fraught?

[sbfluter]

I've been attending an old-time jam for about 2 years now. I was invited by someone at the Irish session. He said come along, it's really friendly. Even though I told him I didn't know how to play my fiddle at all.

After 2 years, I can scratch out a tune here or there on my fiddle. I learned them all during the old-time sessions and very few of them at home off the computer. Everybody there learns the tunes during the session. Somebody starts a tune and by a few times around most people have the gist of it and they're playing it and enjoying it. If you mess up, nobody gives you a dirty look. If you are a beginner and start a tune, they play along with you at your speed.

Why can't Irish sessions be like that? Why are they so scary? Why is learning a tune during the session such a huge no-no? Why are they so fraught with secret glances sent between people and people shunning others for not being virtuosos or for (god forbid) starting a tune they refuse to play anymore? There's so much pressure at Irish sessions!

A beginner Irish musician must resort to learning tunes off the computer. You have to find a tune that's reasonably close to something at the session, then find a way to get it into your computer, find some software to slow it down, struggle to learn because whoever on the CD probably changed the key it was in or is playing it so fancy and so full of variations and ornaments that you aren't sure what the simple basic tune is anymore. You do your best in total isolation and then with a trembling lip at the session, try to toot out something that has as few errors in it as possible and hope people there don't get mad.

Did the Irish ever learn from each other? Was there ever a time when learning tunes involved learning them from musicians in real life? Was there ever a time when sessions were friendly, interactive, supportive and fun for everyone? Or have they always been so fraught?

[plunk111]

Sounds like SOMEone needs to look for another session... They AREN'T all like that!

[Jäger]

Haven't been to an awful lot of sessions, have you?

[Fifthtry]

I've seen both (OT and Irish) both ways (strict and loose). I think you're overgeneralizing by labeling all Irish sessions based on your one. Some are for learners and some aren't. Both have their place. I've also been to Old Time jams where you were expected to know the tune or sit out. Again, it has it's place. I agree with you that if you only have access to one and it's of the variety you don't like, then you're stuck. I've been there too so I've learned on my computer, and that has it's place too.

John

[sbfluter]

I've been to my one, but I also read what is said on these forums and thesession.org. It just seems that Irish sessions create a lot of nervousness and require people to have to learn from computers rather than each other. It just seems sad.

[NicoMoreno]

So why are you doing it then? "Learning" from a computer? You've "learned" from a computer that "all" irish sessions are like that. If that's a sad way to learn, than perhaps you should get out more, take your own advice, and all that.

As others have said, you need to get out more, they aren't all like that. There are definitely beginner friendly sessions. And I would think that most people would be quite a bit more friendly if you *weren't* just learning tunes from a computer! Maybe you should find a teacher or a mentor...

[benhall.1]

To be fair, I think there's a fair few Irish sessions that are just like that. The bitchiness is terrific ... If you don't think that's the case, it'll be because you haven't noticed. They will have noticed that.

[NicoMoreno]

Well sure, I'm not saying I'd run a session that was just a complete free-for-all, everybody catered to, and the only goal that everybody plays all night and has loads of fun. So I'd probably get accused of running a fraught or bitchy session. At least by somebody who doesn't get to play all night on every set of tunes, anyway. Or guitar and bodhran players.

[BigDavy]

[Mr.Gumby]

I think the internet is fraught with people who have strange misconceptions about what 'a session' is and even more un-realistic ones about what a session 'should be'.

I always try see a session as a conversation among friends. You can't expect any stranger who butts in, often without knowing what the conversation is about, to be made welcome. And that hasn't even considered the ones who just barge in and sit down to join in without any introductions at all.

Personally, I wouldn't likely join any session uninvited, or join one that is made up entirely of people I don't know. And if there's nice music going, I'd first ask myself the question whether or not I had anything to contribute. Sitting down to listen can be more rewarding.

Common sense and a bit of social intelligence go a long way.

[highland-piper]

Did the Irish ever learn from each other? Was there ever a time when learning tunes involved learning them from musicians in real life? Was there ever a time when sessions were friendly, interactive, supportive and fun for everyone? Or have they always been so fraught?

"Always" is a long time. It's much longer than the history of the Irish pub session, which is a fairly recent invention, as I understand. It appears that (based on references in scholarly works) Irish pub sessions originated in London in the 1950's. Irish immigrants got together and played the tunes from home.

Here's an interesting bit of reading on what it would have been like prior to the advent of the session:

http://www.standingstones.com/session.html

If you're in the USA you can read Francis O'Neill's Irish folk music: a fascinating hobby, with some account of allied subjects on google books, which will give you some observations about Irish music 100 years ago. On page 16 he talks about taking flute lessons in Ireland as a boy from a man who only played in his own house. He describes the circumstances where he learned other tunes from various people. It's all pretty interesting really. FWIW, neither of the words "session" or "pub" appears in the book.

[Wanderer]

The first session I spent any time at was quite the pressure cooker. There were plenty of egos, knowing looks, shunning, gossip and talking behind people's backs, cliquishness and the various things that sbfluter mentioned. Now, not everyone at the session behaved that way, but there were enough that this kind of thing went on every week.

I found the situation frustrating, and probably at least once a month I came home complaining and swearing I'd never go back. But I always did. Because no matter how much I disliked a lot of the insular politics, the music was pretty phenomenal, and I credit that time with helping me make great strides in my music. I've since moved away, and while I really don't miss many of the people in that session, I'll always be grateful that in order to eke out any sort of acceptance with many of them, I had to work extremely hard. I think the experience really moved me forward as a musician in a way that a more accepting environment might not have.

[fearfaoin]

I've been to my one, but I also read what is said on these forums and thesession.org.

Yeah, all that proves is that some fora are
fraught with complainers. It will probably be
easier to find people recounting bad experiences
than good ones. Although, I guess as with any
social situation, to a large extent you'll get out
what you put into it.

When I think about it, dramaless Irish sessions
in my area outnumber difficult or insular ones
by a large margin. Maybe we need a survey,
mute.

And while I'm shooting off-the-cuff observations,
much respect to Wanderer for a fascinating
insight.

[Infernaltootler]

I think the Irish session I go to might feel a bit fraught to others, but a fair bit of tune swapping goes on and friendly banter, but then I consider myself "on the inside" as it were.

I've heard others describe it to musicians at other sessions as too fast with lots of tunes they don't know and therefore elitist.

There are loads of sessions in the area catering to all kinds of musicians. The Irish session is fast and there are many unusual tunes. That's why I go and perhaps why it doesn't suit everyone.

I've also been to the famous Hershel pub in Slough near London, UK where it is not uncommon for the best names to turn to play. I didn't play there. It was too scary. But the landlord was absolutely amazing.

[highland-piper]

I feel I just have to share this now. I'm on my own with these little tunes and the way they're played. You can't bring them to a session really, you know how these Irish sessions are, everybody wants to pretty much to play together. So if you introduce something new and most people don't bring tape reorders to sessions any more.

So you play it once and you're on your own and you were to come back the next week and play it again, you would be rather rude, or perceived to be rude maybe, so if you have something nice it was a forum to just go ahead and put them out and say "There, now in your own time you can take that in and if you like it you can learn it or know it and if you don't, that's fine too."

(emphasis added)

Liz Carroll, a decade ago, talking about why she records CDs, in an interview on "Thistle and Shamrock."

If she feels it, then there must be something to it.