Hey there,
I've just written a short paper this semester for a course I'm taking at the University of Notre Dame on Gregorian chant analyzing the similarities between chant and Irish traditional music. If anyone is interested it is available in a slightly maligned html format at http://thebonnyprince.blogspot.com/2006 ... ional.html , or as a .doc download from http://www.nd.edu/~psmith13/chantitm.doc . I'd appreciate any comments both on the content or the prose.
Yours,
Philip Carl Smith
[Edited to fix link.]
Gregorian Chant and ITM
Gregorian Chant and ITM
Last edited by psmithltd on Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nanohedron
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First link didn't work ("Not Found"), and the second required an installation of some kind that threw my computer for a loop. 
I'm very interested, though. The very subject was being discussed a bit last evening among friends, and I have to say it's a subject I know nothing about. One fellow maintained that much Gregorian chant was composed by Irish monks at the time when they were doing their thing in mainland Europe. Anything to back that up?
I'm very interested, though. The very subject was being discussed a bit last evening among friends, and I have to say it's a subject I know nothing about. One fellow maintained that much Gregorian chant was composed by Irish monks at the time when they were doing their thing in mainland Europe. Anything to back that up?
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician
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Nanohedron
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Hi, I fixed the link to the html version. You might need Word to read the .doc . I will try to post a pdf version at some point. The problem with the html one is that the footnotes and formating is not quite correct.
I might try to tackle a more indepth answer to the Irish monks as composers theory later on, but I have been told that the Irish monks were taught an early form of the chant when they were first evangelized which they then brought back to Europe, preserving a more ancient form of chant while the chant became 'corupted' in Europe.
In class today we were looking at a twelth or thirteenth century manuscript of Notre Dame-polyphony (Referring of course to the French style of early polyphony that grew up around Notre Dame de Paris, not the school I happen to attend) which was comes from Scotland. The interesting thing is that we do not posess any manuscripts *from* Paris of this Parisian polyphony, all we've got is these Scottish and other national copies that are about fifty years younger than the original music, raising all sorts of interesting questions about what the original French notation was, and if the Scots or whoever else copied the music developed the 'modal' (in a different sense than notewise modal, referring to the rhythmic notation which looks similar to Gregorian square-note neums but is interpreted [controversially] quite differently, with different sets of notes representing rhythms in a bizarre way that I do not quite understand) rhytmic notation that exists in the sources handed down to us. (Some scholars, such as my Professor Alex Blachly, have posited that the original notation was closer to the simpler Calixtinus style notation still extant in Santiago, the absolute earliest polyphony still in existence.)
Its amazing when studying early notation to see how apparently difficult notational ideas that we take for granted (height on the staff representing pitch, a relatively simple system for representing duration, etc.) were to develop. Of course, the early notators of ITM had notational problems of quite a different sort, being sometimes unable to acurately pitch tunes due to modal systems they didn't understand or to wily musicians who couldn't play the same thing twice. (There's an interesting story of this sort in one of O'Neill's memoirs, describing his attempts with James O'Neill to transcribe a piper's (Patsy Touhey? McFadden? I can't remember) playing who kept changing the tunes around each time.)
I might try to tackle a more indepth answer to the Irish monks as composers theory later on, but I have been told that the Irish monks were taught an early form of the chant when they were first evangelized which they then brought back to Europe, preserving a more ancient form of chant while the chant became 'corupted' in Europe.
In class today we were looking at a twelth or thirteenth century manuscript of Notre Dame-polyphony (Referring of course to the French style of early polyphony that grew up around Notre Dame de Paris, not the school I happen to attend) which was comes from Scotland. The interesting thing is that we do not posess any manuscripts *from* Paris of this Parisian polyphony, all we've got is these Scottish and other national copies that are about fifty years younger than the original music, raising all sorts of interesting questions about what the original French notation was, and if the Scots or whoever else copied the music developed the 'modal' (in a different sense than notewise modal, referring to the rhythmic notation which looks similar to Gregorian square-note neums but is interpreted [controversially] quite differently, with different sets of notes representing rhythms in a bizarre way that I do not quite understand) rhytmic notation that exists in the sources handed down to us. (Some scholars, such as my Professor Alex Blachly, have posited that the original notation was closer to the simpler Calixtinus style notation still extant in Santiago, the absolute earliest polyphony still in existence.)
Its amazing when studying early notation to see how apparently difficult notational ideas that we take for granted (height on the staff representing pitch, a relatively simple system for representing duration, etc.) were to develop. Of course, the early notators of ITM had notational problems of quite a different sort, being sometimes unable to acurately pitch tunes due to modal systems they didn't understand or to wily musicians who couldn't play the same thing twice. (There's an interesting story of this sort in one of O'Neill's memoirs, describing his attempts with James O'Neill to transcribe a piper's (Patsy Touhey? McFadden? I can't remember) playing who kept changing the tunes around each time.)
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Redwolf
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There are quite a few similarities between sean-nós singing and Gregorian chant. One of the hardest things for me since I started learning sean-nós is I find myself wanting to throw in a few ornaments when we're chanting the psalm at mass! 
But seriously...they're more alike than not.
Redwolf
But seriously...they're more alike than not.Redwolf
...agus déanfaidh mé do mholadh ar an gcruit a Dhia, a Dhia liom!
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djm
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In her book "A Hidden Ulster", Pádraigín Ní Uallacáin mentions in a few places the influence of French chanson styles introduced to Ireland by the Norman conquerors. You'd have to get the book to pull the references, but it might be an angle to follow up on, as the dates follow closely on the major changes in Gregorian chant referred to in your article.
djm
djm
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