Swannanoah no fun

[patsky]

The word is going around that the powers that be, at Swannanoah, have been very irritated that some good musicians have come to the campus after the classes are over and dared to play music without signing up for classes. From my own experience I received dirty looks and remarks from management last year even though my wife Cathy was taking lessons.
They also got pissed that Tommy Peoples, Martin Hayes and David
Power, invited me to perform with them at the concert that night even though I was doing it for no fee.

Now the word is that they are going to charge a fee to anyone appearing on campus... it will be $100.00 for a "buddy" pass. This policy will do little but spread bad feelings.

In my opinion this is an injustice and moronic thing to do. Students need to hear good sessions and musicians should be able to play as long as it does not interfere with the programs.

By the way, the pay for teachers at Swannanoah is far from adequate;
downright cheap.

All the best,
Pat Sky

[fancypiper]

Greed rears it's ugly head. Are they headed the same direction as the Grandfather Mountain Highland Games? :roll:

That's a shame. It sort of makes me glad that my health didn't permit me to attend any schools this summer.

We need another Chapel Hill toenail......

[Guest]

Its typical of 'organised' Irish stuff that it kills off the little bit of authenticity left from the old ways.

Today with people learning from the likes of Peter Cooper - an Englishman born and bred, and who does not have a word of Gaelic - and other blowins taking over, the idea of traditional is fast becomming totaly inaccurate.

Whatever it is, it ain't traditional.

So you can expect the situation to worsen not improve.

Now that I am talking about traditions and such, I cant help but notice the death of spontaneity at overseas sessions, as well as the disgraceful lack of skill by the sessioneers. In Ireland nobody except a drunken tinker would dare to play such rubbish and call it Irish! A sober tinker might fire up a couple of tunes IF they were really good players, otherwise they like the rest of the people stay quiet.

Other myths that seem to mislead the sessioneer out here are the idea that it has to be 'Irtrad', well it doesn't. In Ireland anything that was good music was always welcomed and the player of one kind was as welcome as that of another.

Today with the public about wore out on any kind of Irish music, I suspect pretty soon we will see folks selling off thier gear on ebay for bad money... yup played so bad that they killed it..

[mukade]

Its typical of 'organised' Irish stuff that it kills off the little bit of authenticity left from the old ways.

Today with people learning from the likes of Peter Cooper - an Englishman born and bred, and who does not have a word of Gaelic -

Most Irish people don't speak Gaelic either.

Mukade

[Les Cruttenden]

I am a very tolerant sort of chap...enjoy seeing other folks opinions and make an effort never to put folk down if i disagree with them BUT..toasty..i have seldom read such nonsense....are you saying that only an Irish person born and bred can do justice to Irish traditional music ? If that is what you meant to say then clearly you have an extremely pompus limited understanding of both Irish trad and the capacity of human kind to learn and adapt......much of what you call Irish trad, anyway had i'ts origins in other cultures......so how come the Irish are the only ones who can play it...no offence but....you are talking nonsense. Les...Englishman born and bred...lived in Ireland for a few years and just love everything Irish...(almost everything) Blessings...Les.

[Guest]

Well darned if I did!

Most people in Ireland have an idea of the Irish ( AKA Gaelic ) from hearing it on the Radio or TV, so Mukade you got that onel wraaang.

Les, sorry to shorten it up there, but what I am remarking upon is the 'cultization' of a dying tradition - ie rural house dancing in Ireland - and its inevitable transformation into something else - eg 'Oirish Musak' as aptly named by one wag in the media.

Nobody growing up in that environment that played something plays as badly as todays sessioneers do. Even I - who mostly played folk, country and blues on the Guitar - can play the full nine yards of a reel complete with decorations on a chromatic harmonica and could do that at age 14 as well.

Like I said the whole thing is turning into an international business model complete with corpo pubs and corpo musak so suit, plastique paddyism gone daft! The only trouble with that is folks are tired of it and beginning to look/listen elsewhere.

[dubhlinn]

Toasty,
Credit where it is due....irrespective of nationality.

Coppers

Slan,
D.

[mvhplank]

Now the word is that they are going to charge a fee to anyone appearing on campus... it will be $100.00 for a "buddy" pass. This policy will do little but spread bad feelings.

In my opinion this is an injustice and moronic thing to do. Students need to hear good sessions and musicians should be able to play as long as it does not interfere with the programs.

Hmmm....

Let me play Devil's advocate here for a moment. Say I'm organizing this event, and I'm paying the professional musicians, and the students are paying me. I don't know if they do this at Swannanoah, but at the last learning-type camp I went to, the professionals were expected to jam with the students and put on a faculty concert in addition to teaching their classes.

So if some freeloader comes in, the paying students are going to demand to know why this non-staff person is taking up their quality time with the instructors.

If the pros aren't adequately paid, can't you be considered part of the problem by not enrolling?

[ducking out now, expecting the flamethrower]
M

[Guest]

Toasty,
Credit where it is due....irrespective of nationality.

Coppers

Slan,
D.

Agreed!

Indeed, and I for one having been there should know just a little about that too but I am shamed by not knowing a thing besides a couple of their songs!

And, http://www.setdancingnews.net/ shows that some of the old ways are in good hands, heres hoping it lasts.

[SteveShaw]

Even I - who mostly played folk, country and blues on the Guitar - can play the full nine yards of a reel complete with decorations on a chromatic harmonica and could do that at age 14 as well.

You've gone up in my estimation then! There was a fair amount of vitriolic correspondence on the IRTRAD-L list recently that contained a ton of anti-non-Irish stuff and nonsense emanating from the pens of some big noises in ITM who should have known better. I left that list sharpish I can tell you! There's a lot of damn fine Irish music played by Irish, half-Irish, non-Irish Londoners with Irish accents, Scots and a veritable army of people who have nothing Irish about them. It's about how you learn the tunes and assimilate the tradition, not whether Guinness flows in your veins. And even Englishmen have been known to write exceptionally fine books about Irish music!

Steve (origins never accurately disclosed...)

[David Levine]

Too many people take their eyes off the prize—which is the music. If you just do the tunes and keep reminding yourself that the truth is in the tune you’ll be all right. Toasty is right that a lot crap is called Irish or Celtic music. But that has nothing to do with native Irish. There isn’t anything about being Irish or living in Ireland that makes a person superior.
I was born in Brooklyn. I have been coming and going to and from Ireland since about 1980. I live here now. The other night I played with an American fiddler from Michigan, who lives here with her Japanese husband, and a box-player from California who has been here over thirty years. After a while a piper came in. It was a lovely session with just the right people. Nobody cared where anybody was from. The music was and is the point.
An Irishman isn’t any better for having been born here. Americans Billy McComiskey, Eileen Ivers and Joanie Madden have been playing music since they were kids. Pat Sky is a wonderful piper who is Native American! Bill Ochs is Jewish. It’s nice to have been immersed in the music from an early age but it isn’t essential to become an accomplished player.
Martin Hayes said that Irish music is global. It’s like classical music. You don’t have to be German to play Bach with skill and authenticity.
You got to keep an open mind. Diversity is wonderful. It doesn’t necessarily dilute the tradition. It can, with the right approach, expand the richness of tradition.
Now I’m off to Milltown for a few tunes on a Sunday afternoon.

[fluti31415]

Let me play Devil's advocate here for a moment. Say I'm organizing this event, and I'm paying the professional musicians, and the students are paying me. I don't know if they do this at Swannanoah, but at the last learning-type camp I went to, the professionals were expected to jam with the students and put on a faculty concert in addition to teaching their classes.

...the paying students are going to demand to know why this non-staff person is taking up their quality time with the instructors.

[ducking out now, expecting the flamethrower]
M

This was my first thought as well. I have no idea how Swananoa runs their business, and I am not implying that this was the case. But I have been a participant at some workshops and a staff member at other workshops, where the situation you described did happen. Fortunately, I have never had this happen to me personally -- I have only been a witness to it -- but it is not a good situation. And remember, the students have likely used their limited vacation time from their jobs and spent a significant amount of money to be at the camp; as a result, they are likely to have very high expectations. And who can blame them?

I am not saying that this was the case at Swananoa, and I am not saying that you were part of the problem. More likely, you were an innocent bystander in a larger "situation." It is a sad situation when people can't just play together and learn from each other. But I can definitely see the students' side to this as well.

(ready to duck flames as well).

[Guest]

Too many people take their eyes off the prize—which is the music. If you just do the tunes and keep reminding yourself that the truth is in the tune you’ll be all right. Toasty is right that a lot crap is called Irish or Celtic music. But that has nothing to do with native Irish. There isn’t anything about being Irish or living in Ireland that makes a person superior.
I was born in Brooklyn. I have been coming and going to and from Ireland since about 1980. I live here now. The other night I played with an American fiddler from Michigan, who lives here with her Japanese husband, and a box-player from California who has been here over thirty years. After a while a piper came in. It was a lovely session with just the right people. Nobody cared where anybody was from. The music was and is the point.
An Irishman isn’t any better for having been born here. Americans Billy McComiskey, Eileen Ivers and Joanie Madden have been playing music since they were kids. Pat Sky is a wonderful piper who is Native American! Bill Ochs is Jewish. It’s nice to have been immersed in the music from an early age but it isn’t essential to become an accomplished player.
Martin Hayes said that Irish music is global. It’s like classical music. You don’t have to be German to play Bach with skill and authenticity.
You got to keep an open mind. Diversity is wonderful. It doesn’t necessarily dilute the tradition. It can, with the right approach, expand the richness of tradition.
Now I’m off to Milltown for a few tunes on a Sunday afternoon.

Whaooh thar now! I am not saying that only Irish folks can play Irtrad, what I am moaning about is the organisers of it turning the whole shebang into a corporate money maker, and with that the evolution of 'sit' about and play along music which isn't a dance meeting at all; I am observing totaly non Irish people who know nearly nothing about the old culture setting themselves up as experts on playing the music. It wasn't and it isn't that simple a process, if it were why would native old codgers like myself be still at it?

A great example occured to me lately when given some session tunes which BTW are played regularly. Among these 'The King Of The Fairies' was attacked first part once and followed by the second part. The problem with that is the first part is always played TWICE then the second part ONCE.

Then the practice of including very difficult tunes to 'out' folks the regulars don't want -usually beginners-, not to mention sessions ran and kept going for the profit of a business AND supported by folks who make a living playing what they call 'Irtrad', it has been said elsewhere and I am not holding back on it. They do Oirish Musak to lubicate the thirst of plastic paddies.

If it were like the old days then sets of simple Jigs, Reels etc would be selected to draw a bigger bunch of players.

I hope you can get what I am on about, since it is not my, nor any sensible person's, place to be telling folks not to do what they want to do.

Follow your muse Sir, thats what I believe.

[mukade]

The problem with that is the first part is always played TWICE then the second part ONCE.

it is not my, nor any sensible person's, place to be telling folks not to do what they want to do.
Follow your muse Sir, thats what I believe.

Maybe they were following their muse.

Mukade

[fluteboy]

Well, for my own two cents, I have an open invitation to play in the Swannanoa sessions directly from director Jim Magill and he's told me he extends the same to other players as well. I grew up in the music going to Swannanoa (this will be my 8th year, though due to the fact that I now play and teach Irish music professionally and for a living (read: I am always flat broke) I can rarely afford the classes anymore. Yet, in my experience, some of the most brilliant sessions over the years at Celtic Week have happened because musicians from elsewhere just happened to show up one night (think they threw a certain guitar player named John Doyle out when he would show up and play in the sessions and before he was a bona fide instructor?) . I think the main reasons people are pissed is that some people will show up assuming that just because they may have been before, they are entitled to sneak into one of the sold-out instructor concerts (I myself have been sadly guilty of this, but I was only there because Liz Carroll told me to and you do what Liz Carroll tells you to do if you know what's good for you) or else when just any metal-head with a djembe from Asheville shows up and thinks he knows how to play Irish music. But for the most part, the players who show up know what they are doing. And besides, I don't go to Swannanoa for the classes anymore (though of course you can always learn more); I go to see friends I only get to see and play tunes with once a year. I don't feel that showing up for the sessions for a few nights is hurting the Gathering in any way.

Zac