Spruce Chanter Reed (demo)

[donpiper]

larry,

I would try Geoff's method first. (and thanks for the tip Geoff.)
Easier, and less chance of making things worse.

I got the idea from one of David Daye's articles, can't remember which.
There are lots of good articles and videos at his site. Click on the support & tips link on the sidebar.

http://daye1.com/pennychanter.html

Not all will be applicable to your situation, but make good reading anyway.
sometimes I need to read them a few times to get my head around the concepts.

[geoff wooff]

I'm happy if anyone finds my Tip usefull... it is one of the processes I use for all my reeds... of course I am only talking of reeds made from Cane... I've never made chanter reeds from anything else.. yet.

It goes without saying that I do aim for a very fine surface on the insides of the slips before assembly... although I have heard it said that this is not strickly necessary .. Thus I can imagine that if the blade tips are 'well' bedded into each other and a really crisp 'snap shut' is achieved then the quality of the rest of the inside surface is less important.

Happy Reedmaking to all !!

Geoff.

[Brazenkane]

I always enjoy Geoff's suggestions!

Hats off to your making a of wooden reed. It's certainly a tricky endeavor to say the least!

I think too, it's good to hear a cane version of Bill's chanter, too.

http://billhaneman.ie/soundfiles/B-27-Hardiman.mp3

Perfect timing of owl Bill's doggie to bark simultaneously with the chanter! Flawless performance of both a good cane reed, and a good K-9!
-----
btw, I always like to A/B my own cane v. wood attempts, just incase I get spruce vertigo…...

[Lorenzo]

Bill's B chanter rocks (the whole set really) O'Master Kane! The quintessential experience of a Coyne copy.

(Brazenkane makes fantastic wooden reeds--spruce or maple)

[Lorenzo]

Wow! Just have to tell you...

A few minutes go I was going to take my Spruce reed apart--wet, wait, and sand--and then retie it. But, first I decided to cut a small rectangular piece of ultra fine 1500 grit black sand paper and stick it between the lips. It measured 7mm wide and 40mm long. It slipped in easily, so I squeezed the blades shut tight against the sand paper and pulled it out. I flipped the reed over and did the same thing. I was careful to stay away from the side/edges. I put it in and pulled it out three times on each side, moving it a little off center two of the three times (on each side), then tried it out in the chanter. That brightened it considerably!

#SimplyAmazed

[BzzzzT]

Just my limited and personal journey with wooden reeds:

I just messed around with wood reeds as an experiment. I made them for kicks. Nothing serious. I was really surprised when my second reed sounded decent but not fully in tune. I made a couple more and did some experiments sanding the slip etc. I plan to experiment more in the future. To me, I did notice that my redwood reed was much more stable and consistent than cane in dealing with humidity swings.

I don't feel there is any magic voodoo to making a wooden reed. Just keep the grain consistent the length of the slip. The wood I used, I consider soft. I was not hot on using spruce. I personally am wary of pine. I know they make instruments from spruce. Though, I will try it in the future. A friend told me redwood worked well. The mill I purchase lumber from has great red wood. I bought some and re-sawed it up. I would never split the stuff. This is too fiddly for me and I can choose nice straight grained redwood at the mill. I prefer to re-saw everything on the table saw. Much more slips and much more efficient in regards to time and producing a volume of working slips. Provided you have the tools, I don't really find redwood much more difficult to work with than cane. I cut my slips close to what I need and gouge like a normal reed, leaving just a bit more material. I get the final curvature with sanding blocks. I gouge a little off the top sides and sand down. Redwood is much easier to sand than cane, so I don't mind having the sandpaper do extra work!

This is my very limited experience so far and just represents an experiment delving into wood. So take everything I say with a grain of salt. I am really down with redwood reeds. I am battling illness right now but I plan to make several when I feel better. These wooden reeds have the potential to rock IMO.

BTW, thanks for the input Geoff!

- Jason

[donpiper]

That brightened it considerably!
#SimplyAmazed

great stuff!

Don't bother untying it now, you won't get a lot of improvement.
maybe in a year or two if it gets dull again, or when you have
two better reeds.

If you want more improvement try Geoff's suggestion.

Try the wetting trick with the 1500 grit on the next one you make,
just before you tie.
use the same cylinder that you do the regular sanding on.


You don't need much water, just enough to dampen the surface,
and raise the damaged fibres.
The less water you use, the quicker it will dry.

I'll second Brazenkane. Hats off again.

Brazenkane: what species of maple do you use?
I found this thread in which you nominate curly maple,

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=69111

but http://www.wood-database.com/ says:

Curly Maple is not actually a species, but simply a description of a figure in the grain—it occurs most often in soft maples, but is also seen in hard maples

The pic Joseph Sampson posted looks a bit like rock maple (Acer saccharum) to me, but that is the only northern hemisphere maple I have experience with.
It is also probably the easiest to get hold of here in Australia.

I guess it might be easier to look for something with similar density/hardness/elasticity

BzzzzT: best wishes for your health and the redwood experiments.

The thing that concerns me about pines is that true pines (genus Pinus) tend to have large resin canals.

[Lorenzo]

Good advice, Don, on leaving the spruce reed alone.

Here's one of Brazenkane's maple reeds. You can see a couple large flames (curls) across the middle of the scrape. Had to get the light just right for them to show at all.

To my ears, the maple sounds somewhere between the my spruce and my cane...and more towards cane. I'll try to get a sound file up soon.

[Lorenzo]

Bzzzzt...now I'll have to try cedar...and I just happen to have some really straight grained pieces. Redwood...I'll have to buy some.

[donpiper]

Thanks Lorenzo,

for posting the pic of the curly maple reed and the description of how it sounds.

I was impressed the sound of the Froment chanter in the jig clip on
the thread linked in my last post. I assume that was a Brazenkane maple reed.

I was probably getting ahead of myself though.
Better to make a working reed or two from something easier,
like spruce before trying more demanding woods like curly maple.

In my experience curly grained woods are tougher, less likely to split,
but harder to work: more difficult to cut straight, tear out, sand to a uneven, lumpier finish.
I don't know how they influence tone.

Curly maple like Brazenkane uses is hard to source here,
I would probably be better off trying a substitute with similar density/hardness/elasticity
when I get to that stage.

Best of luck with the cedar reed project, let us know how you get on.
A soundfile of the improved spruce reed would be interesting as well if you can manage it.

thanks again,
Donald

[donpiper]

I managed to buy these about a week or so after my last post:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/64b-3-x-USA- ... true&rt=nc

The last pieces he had, you never know your luck I suppose.

I will be making a few softwood reeds before I try the curly maple,
but it's good to know I have some when the time comes.

cheers to all

[Lorenzo]

Has anyone else tried making spruce reeds? I've just made another one out of Engelmann and am liking it better than the first. It's brighter, perhaps the wood is not as soft as the other piece--which sounded kind of woody. This one has all the tonal colouring off the knee you'd ever want. Spruce produces a really solid pitch for each note, the octaves are also extremely true to each other. By solid, I mean it can take greater bag pressure than cane and still remain totally stable. You can't get the bell note to dip no matter how much pressure you give it. Same with the back D. Pretty amazing, really, after playing with cane all my life.

A friend of mine has an entire woodshed full of cut and cured Engelmann spruce. I had fun looking at the tight grain at the ends of the cut blocks. He says I can have all I want, so think I'll split a few wedges (quarter sawn) out of the better blocks.

I've also just purchased some really fine straight grained redwood. That's next. I made a bass drone reed out of it the other day just to see how it sounded. I drilled the hole, friction fitted the rough cut reed block on a chainsaw file, then turned (thinned) the outer wall by sticking the round file in an electric drill and holding a flat file against the rotating surface. Worked like a miniature lathe...almost.

[Mike Hulme]

I am about to make a few of these, but am going to cheat! I will use some close grained Italian spruce, originally intended for viola bellies, but will cut off the thickest section, turn it round on the Boxford, then bore and ream it out to the size of cane I use, then treat it as a cane tube.

I've got several things going on at the moment, so it will be a little while before I get round to it, but I will report back.

n.b. Plaques - you might find it easier to use a bassoon plaque rather than an oboe plaque. They're a bit bigger and help to protect the reed edge better. I got mine from Howarth's in the UK (available in plastic and ebony).

Mike

[Lorenzo]

I will use some close grained Italian spruce...

I had to make sure I knew what Italian Spruce was as we've been discussing several different types. This is interesting: The Truth About Spruce - all spruce in Europe is likely the same species, just known by different names, and grows slightly different in the various climates and elevations.
http://www.lutherie.net/eurospruce.html

I think the hardness/softness of any given spruce is the trick...and this varies within one tree--all the way from the outer growth to the inner, from the base to the top.

Averages here: http://www.wood-database.com/?s=engelmann+spruce

[Mike Hulme]

The stuff I will be using is Picea Abies, which grows all over. This I use this for violin family instruments after a "dunk test". The lighter the wood the less it sinks, and I aim for 65% maximum submersion. This should give a good belly, so long as it flexes and twists correctly (for a fiddle) but for pipe reeds it's behaviour will be different. I'll let you know.

Some of this wood was cut 60 years ago, so is well mature now.