A profound thought

[Richard Katz]

"When you hire a musician, you are hiring more than just someone to perform. You are paying for hundreds of hours of failures, and experimentation. You are paying for days, weeks, months, years of practicing, frustration and moments of pure joy. You aren’t just paying for a thing. You are paying for a piece of heart, part of a soul, a moment of someone’s life. More importantly, you are paying for the musician to have more time to do something that they are passionate about."

I think I will use this the next time someone asks, "Why are you so expensive to hire!" "How many songs do I get for that price?" "How long do you stay?" Etc., etc., etc,........

[MTGuru]

First, whose quote is that?

Second, how is this any different from hiring any other skill? Every human is the sum total of his/her life experience up to the point where your timelines intersect, and that experience fulfills your need. Not to discount the sentiment, only the uniqueness. Sometimes I think musicians (and I mean in general, not you specifically, Richard) grasp at rationalizations to make themselves feel special and unique in ways that they're not. Rationalizations that may include characterizing the ordinary as profound.

(And yes, I'm feeling a bit contrarian today.)

[Richard Katz]

Hey MTGuru,

Not meant to be exclusive to musicians, but this just expressed a sentiment to me because I am a musician.

Too many musicians, in my humble opinion only, don't appreciate what made them a musician in the first place and why they should be, like any other professinal, respected and compensated financially when performing.

You are worth your talent, but you need to realize whether or not you actually are competent and worth the price you demand.

To thine own self, be true...or something like that!

[MTGuru]

And whose quote?

(P.S. Have you not checked your PMs? You have at least one waiting in your box.)

[Richard Katz]

OK...so I edited it from a quote I saw somewhere on the net a while ago. Don't know who penned it. Sorry.

[MTGuru]

OK...so I edited it from a quote I saw somewhere on the net a while ago. Don't know who penned it. Sorry.

Don't be sorry. If you morphed it over time from somewhere else, at this point it's your quote.

[Richard Katz]

I take no credit. Just liked the sentiment, that's all!

It attracted me because I see way too many musicians undercut themselves when asking for payment, or worse, not getting paid at all to do an event.

If you play for free by choice that is fine.

But undercutting your fee causes all of us to lose because it then sets a precident of low pay.

"That's all I have to say about that" Forrest Gump

[benhall.1]

First, whose quote is that?

Second, how is this any different from hiring any other skill? Every human is the sum total of his/her life experience up to the point where your timelines intersect, and that experience fulfills your need. Not to discount the sentiment, only the uniqueness. Sometimes I think musicians (and I mean in general, not you specifically, Richard) grasp at rationalizations to make themselves feel special and unique in ways that they're not. Rationalizations that may include characterizing the ordinary as profound.

(And yes, I'm feeling a bit contrarian today.)

Actually I feel the same (at least, I think it's the same). Except I don't think it's because I'm feeling contrarian. In fact, I find something just a tad distasteful about the sentiment. It seems to me, possibly unfairly, to be one or two steps down the road towards those musicians - and others - who are just a bit 'up themselves'; who feel they are somehow 'a cut above' other people. None of us are. We do what we do. If I am satisfied with what I've done, then that's good enough for me. If others appreciate it too, then that's a bonus.

Oh, and by the way, the sense of entitlement contained within "More importantly, you are paying for the musician to have more time to do something that they are passionate about" would make me not want to pay. I don't like the idea - common nowadays - that the world owes someone - anyone - a living. Having said which, their are a few top musicians who don't earn very much and whom I wish would be able to earn a bit more. There's just a few that, if it were possible, I'd give a grant, on the grounds that they're national (international) treasures.

[Steampacket]

"There's just a few that, if it were possible, I'd give a grant, on the grounds that they're national (international) treasures." benhall.

Aye, Cathal MacConnell, Tommy Peoples, Geoff Wooff, Chris Wilkes, Cathrine McEvoy, Mickey Dunne, Pat Mitchell, Pat Mahon, the Mulcahy Family, Pat Olwell to name a few

[Ceann Cromtha]

If you want to see the other extreme of this sentiment, hire a lawyer for a legal matter. Chances are you'll be charged for some boilerplate form letter in the back-and-forth procedural stage that is the Nth iteration of the same document, but you'll be charged as it it is the first time such a thing was printed. If book publishers applied this same logic, then a copy of War and Peace would probably cost you tens of thousands of dollars, euro, pounds, etc.

[Lorenzo]

...how is this any different from hiring any other skill? Every human is the sum total of his/her life experience up to the point where your timelines intersect, and that experience fulfills your need.

Exactly. I get amused when "what goes around comes around" and someone like an experienced plumber hands a (medical) doctor a bill for fixing his pipes...and the doctor says, "how do you get off on charging so much just for a house call?"

[mke_mick]

I think you guys are being altogether too hard on Richard. As he's explained perfectly clearly, he's saying simply "never apologize for charging a fair price for musical services," not "musicians are special and should be treated better than other skilled professionals."

Did a wedding-musician kill your dad or something? Geez...

--Mick

[Mr.Gumby]

A musician providing music for weddings and funerals (which I understand is Richard's business) is delivering a service. You wouldn't hear someone who comes to plaster your walls, do your plumbing or replace the timing belt on your car going on about their passion and the parts of their soul you're taking from them. You're there to hang an aural wallpaper, not to make a statement on the nature of the human condition.

But, like anyone plying a trade, a fair payment for services provided is appropriate. I don't think anyone here would dispute that. Hardly a profound insight though, is it?

[benhall.1]

Now, where's that 'like' button?

[Richard Katz]

Wow...didn't think this was such a contentious piece.

Not making any statement about feeling entitled at all. Just making a statement about being respected and paid a fair price for the service that you are providing.

As far as being passionate and being able to continue performing, the payment you receive, in part, allows you to continue to make a living like any other other trade.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. My apologies if I did.

I also believe in knowing your competency level so that you don't have an inflated picture of yourself. After all, we are all our own worst critics, aren't we? I know that I am.

Cheers! Richard