The times they are a changin

[Brazenkane]

I've listened to Joey Abarta playing some tunes on his Kennedy B Set. Some squeaks here and there, but very lovely, graceful playing.

It's these kind of observations that have pushed piping into the near sanitized direction. I've never heard that observation bestowed on Ennis or Clancy, and yet there are more than a few places where those things happen. This is not a comment on Joey's playing, but an overall observation on the observation itself!!! Grit is where it's at for me…. honest playing.

I wasn't 'dissing' his playing.


Never said you were.

I guess I should have said that's part of why I liked it.


Perhaps


Besides I wasn't listening for any squeaks or squeals, but the over all playing!

Well, you mentioned them, and in this context, I addressed that.


You know, I try to be nice here, and all you ever do is respond to me back in a rather harsh manner ... Why is it that you always single me out?

To be honest with you, I have no idea who you are, and aside from some of the old timers, I don't keep track of who I respond to. Screen names come and go. When I see something that provokes me to write, I respond. Contrary to what you wrote, I want to assure you that I "don't have it out for you."


Almost every response in the past that you have said to me, it's always abrasive and/or cheeky.

I am sorry you're reading it that way, as it is not my intention.


I'm only a beginner here, of course I will make mistakes! Sheesh...

I'm going to step way out on a limb. I'll probably voice what lots of people think (?) Being a beginner is great! Hats off to you for taking the plunge. This is a tough road and rewarding journey that's open to all. Beginners could be doing way more listening than proclaiming. A master Irish traditional musician once told me, "Be a fly on the wall. Observe, decipher, consider, ponder, discover, question, and then do it all again, forever."

Words to live by!

[David Lim]

I'm going to step way out on a limb. I'll probably voice what lots of people think (?) Being a beginner is great! Hats off to you for taking the plunge. This is a tough road and rewarding journey that's open to all. Beginners could be doing way more listening than proclaiming. A master Irish traditional musician once told me, "Be a fly on the wall. Observe, decipher, consider, ponder, discover, question, and then do it all again, forever."

Words to live by!

Couldn't disagree more with this!!
Don't be that fly on the wall, get in there with all the other flies...
I could extend the analogy but it might get tasteless

Yes, do all that good stuff as well, observing etc but proclaim on internet discussion sites (be respectful, moderators will tell you if you go too far) and elsewhere all you want.

I personally find the opinions of newer players can be enlightening.
When you are deep inside the box, someone sticking their head in and making a comment can stop you sealing the lid behind you.

David

[Brazenkane]

Couldn't disagree more with this!!
Don't be that fly on the wall, get in there with all the other flies...

I think you have misinterpreted what I meant. I am not saying, "do not participate."

but proclaim on internet discussion sites and elsewhere all you want.

Here is where we differ.

I personally find the opinions of newer players can be enlightening.

I'm curious, for yourself, what might be an example of that?


When you are deep inside the box, someone sticking their head in and making a comment can stop you sealing the lid behind you.

That's a colourful analogy. However, living by that quote I wrote in the last post insures that the proverbial box is never sealed, nor is "it" a box at all!
David

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

The fellow who got me started with the pipes mostly played the Scottish instrument, and introduced me to the concept of "crossing noises," which are pretty much what they sound like - going from note to note with some inadvertent sounds on the way. In Scottish piping this is frowned upon and thoroughly ironed out of players in their formative stages - IIRC! Correct me if I'm off the mark here, I'm not really all that familiar with how military style piping instruction works.

Anyway, as my friend pointed out, you hear no end of these noises in the playing of Clancy, Ennis, etc. Even "cleaner" or more "professional" pipers like Rowsome or Touhey would display them from time to time. This guy was a fan of all of these, I should mention. At some point it occurred to me that "crossing noises" were just part of their sound, especially Willie's. Hearing an old tape of his protege or biggest fan Sean McKiernan was illuminating here, too; Sean sounded much like Willie in tone, timing, ornaments, settings, but laid on the "sloppy fingering" even thicker. In fact in the decades since he's cleaned up his fingering a bit. None of this is a criticism in any way, if anybody's going there. It's part of what gives these player's music real personality, possibly at the expense of its dancability factor, I suppose.

These aren't exactly "squeaks" necessarily, but it's a related phenomenon. The odd squeak may or may not be a part of it. A friend of mine who took up the pipes at the beginning of the 80s has a distinctly "squeaky" style, I can always recognize it when I hear it.

[ennischanter]

I accept your apology Brazenkane. I guess I should apologize for my little snap I had at you..



I guess we just have to remember that this is the inter-webs where we do not know anybody's attitudes. Since it's all pretty much obscured, and all somebody has to express themselves is by using exclamation points, or capital letters... I guess I just wrongly read them.


P.S. I actually do tons of listening. Usually when I am on the chiffboard I am listening to something in the background.

[Brazenkane]

Listening to music is the obvious imperative, though the lesser obvious thing, is to listen to the torchbearers. Still more allusive is to hear what they have to say, and that means one needs to go and seek out these important individuals; be they the reed makers, musicians, etc.

There are endless layers to this…

[boyd]

Depends what you listen to !!
CDs may not always reflect "traditional" music
Some mentioned JH for instance. He lives in Scotland and plays a lot with Scottish musicians and for a worldwide audience.
That's bound to influence what he then produces on commercial recordings.
He can play the dyed in the wool trad as good as anybody (and better than most of us)

So what's the difference in the music?

Modern stuff is beat driven and to my ear the notes within bars are evened out.
A more pippity pip effect or machine gun rhythmic.
Old stuff ("trad trad" as someone called it) has a lot more swing because of a stronger time emphasis on certain notes to cause that effect. For example the start of an 8 note sequence in a reel is given the main "push" and the rhythm comes with every eighth note.
What they still play in parts of Ireland, with all the swing, and sliding into notes, giving the music an accent, a dialect, if you like.... now that's the real deal !!! and hard to execute well.

I hope I am explaining it correctly
Someone more clever will no doubt tidy up my argument.
Boyd


ps/ Happy Christmas everyone.

[TheSilverSpear]

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

Kids these days, eh? And to those uilleann pipers playing Scottish tunes in A... get off my lawn.

[NicoMoreno]

I've never heard that observation bestowed on Ennis or Clancy,

I'm surprised at this - but maybe you literally meant "heard", and therefore discount the many threads and discussions on here and thesession (and elsewhere) where people bring up the squeaks and squawks, and ask why those two in particular are considered good.

And there are lots of people who consider them good despite the squeaks and squawks, rather than because of it.

Anyway, I'm not revealing my own opinion here because it's much too nuanced for typed words this early in the morning before my tea.

[tommykleen]

Kids these days, eh? And to those uilleann pipers playing Scottish tunes in A... get off my lawn.

I have heard this complaint before. Can someone please explain why this is so anathema to so many people?

[TheSilverSpear]

You should play Scottish tunes on the Scottish pipes!

They can keep their feckin' weather as well!

[Brazenkane]

I've never heard that observation bestowed on Ennis or Clancy,

I'm surprised at this - but maybe you literally meant "heard", and therefore discount the many threads and discussions on here and thesession (and elsewhere) where people bring up the squeaks and squawks, and ask why those two in particular are considered good.

Now that you mention it, I think you are jogging my memory in regards to a thread, or two having to do with that. Exactly, in person I've never heard anyone say that. Wait! Yes, there was one piper in particular I can recall who "hates the way Willie Clancy plays." There was no convincing him, yet the evidence of his dislike for Clancy was quite evident in his own playing!

[CHasR]

As a general observation it seems that (lack of better terms all in quotes-) 'folk', 'rustic', 'trad', 'ethnic' instruments , globally speaking, are suddenly now expected to fit into the 'mainstream' mold, same as piano, strings, sax, flute, brass, guitar (which made an astounding leap in the 20th c). Just worked under a conductor who asked for a big crescendo on pipes, for ex.
The 'mainstream' instruments need periodic augmentation by these 'lost' & 'rare' voices. Instruments such as Uilleann pipes are sought out; & in many cases it is conform-or-die. Even when an inst does not excel at 'crossover' . The survival of a lot of these unique voices IS tenuous, even when the core of audience/practitioner/craftsperson is solid. Outside that cultural safety-zone, the hoops more versatile insts manage easily can be a huge hurdle. Although it is difficult not to come accross as a diva trying to assure a setting where rustic insts co operate and shine. One uncontrollable squeek on a dry, spotlit stage after sitting an hour backstage in silence can ruin perception of the instrument for many. Its high stakes.

[tommykleen]

You should play Scottish tunes on the Scottish pipes!

They can keep their feckin' weather as well!

*fail*

Then you might wish to avoid certain tunes, such as Rakish Paddy, The Mason's Apron, The Boyne Hunt, Miss McLeod's, Tarbolton, The Dogs Among the Bushes to name a few.

[TheSilverSpear]

Yes, and on the internet, no one knows you're a dog.