Ethics and the Sale of Pre-Owned ITM CDs

[Brazenkane]

My most recent posts have had much to do with ethics, so I thought to continue the idea.

As we have been seeing the sharp decline of the CD over the past years, many of us who have very large CD collections have converted them to more portable (and user friendly) formats. The decline of the CD as a viable format has even stretched to ITM, with many of our favourite artists offering digi-downloads as an alternative to the CD. As for myself, I have well over 200 commercially available ITM CDs, and though I enjoy reading the liner notes, I simply don't use my CDs anymore.

Here's the question:

Is the sale of "pre-owned" commercially available ITM CDs at a discounted price, ethical?

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*Of course, CDs sound better than a compressed file. Yes, there are some sites that offer High-Quality downloads (AIFF, WAV, etc). However, to keep on point, lets aim this thread towards the question of selling Cds, as opposed to discussing the varying quality different files may offer. Thanks.*

[PJ]

Just to clarify, you're talking about the SALE, not the purchase. In other words, it's the ethics of the seller you want to discuss. I buy a CD, listen to it, decide I no longer want it in my collection and sell it.

If that is what you're referring to, then I think it is ethical. If I don't like it or "grow out of it", or decide ITM no longer rings my bell, I shouldn't be married to the CD. If I throw it away, I'll have less money to buy other CDs and so other artists will be deprived of income. So for me it would be more ethical to sell the CD I don't like.

[john]

I can't tell from what you say who it is that might be being harmed. For it to be unethical wouldn't it need to be harming somebody's livelihood?

The issue of copying seems to me to be more of an issue in the ITMA because there might be a perceptible impact on the financial welfare of the artist if they're not getting what's owed to them.

[anima]

Right, is it ethical to sell the CD after I have ripped it to my iPod (or whatever device)?

[john]

because that way you've bought it with the intention of getting yourself a copy for your ipod then recouping some of the costs by selling the hard copy, and that way the artist only gets paid once even though 2 parties have paid for the privilege of owning their work?

[CHasR]

Selling /reselling an opened and "listened-to" CD is (imho) not unethical, unless its damaged and wont play. As a "repeatable-use" tangible object, the same standard is applicable to discs, blenders, cars, cribs, tv's, lawnmowers...etc

Selling someone a CD that you've burned from soundfiles you;ve ripped to your HardDrive from a previously purchased CD of original ©-ed content, is piracy of intellectual property.

However, it IS unethical for a profitable company to lobby for legislation that lowers artist royalty rates from an already-too-low current rate; to an even lower share ($39.US for 3.1 Million plays in the ex. below).

http://thetrichordist.com/2013/06/28/ar ... rate-cuts/

Something for everyone to think about next time they stream content.

Unfortunately in this current climate, It's up to the artist (or their handler) to control how and where their content is distributed. ( and we all thought functional harmony was the difficult bit roflmfaoffs)

From my perspective, Pay-per dwnld's (with free 30 sec samples) are probably going to be the optimal choice for artists in the forseeable. Add in some live gigs & a bit of merch, & its pretty much all the juice we got.

[kkrell]

Ethical to sell the CDs you own (and for whatever price you can get).
NOT ETHICAL to keep the music after you have done so (tape, digital, CD-R backups, etc.).
BTW, the CDs I have sold in the past are all originals. I either had my own additional CD that remains in my collection, or I didn't care for the content and am willing to do without.

I'm a little more fuzzy on items that are out-of-print, live performances, etc. The rights to that intellectual property usually do belong to someone (performer, label, composer, family or heirs), and it is probably unethical to distribute it without their permission. For instance, some recordings go in and out of print, or might be intended for re-release at a future date, and they can definitely be harmed.

[maki]

IF you are troubled by possible ethical conflicts that might arise from the sale of recorded music,
I accept all free piping CDs.
There, problem solved!

But seriously, I think you are OK.

[john]

is it the case that in some cases a recording has to sell quite a bit in the first place just to pay for itself - I am thinking of something like liam o'flynn's solo cds which sound like pretty big productions to me

[anima]

Right, is it ethical to sell the CD after I have ripped it to my iPod (or whatever device)?

BTW, I was just rephrasing the question, not actually asking it. I already know the answer.

[Katharine]

Ethics aside of whether you keep your digital copy or not... I would think it could be argued that the artist might be harmed by selling of secondhand material. After all, if I can get a CD used from someone else, that keeps me from buying it new from the artist, yes?

[tompipes]

I don't think it's unethical.

A few years ago I put about 100 cd's on ebay because I had them on a hard drive and I wasn't really going to listen to those ones any more. After ebay fees I made about $150 and I spent the money on new albums...

The thing is a person who buys a used "Tommy Martin" or whoever cd for $2 on ebay probably wouldn't have spent the $10 or $15 on the same thing new. But if they like it they may buy another cd from the same artist at the regular price. It's happened me anyway.

Usually if I buy a cd nowadays I upload it and give it to someone else unless its a rare edition or a first edition from a new band.

Tommy

[ennischanter]

I wish I had The Wandering Minstrel on Cd or Vinyl.


I would've loved to have real the liner notes for it.

I wonder if you could still get ITM music in Vinyl...

[john]

is the reason new itm releases are not on vinyl because they'd be too expensive to manufacture in relatively small quantities? all the big rock acts seem to have their new material available on vinyl for about £20 against about £12 for a cd

[Sirchronique]

I don't think it's unethical just to sell a CD, but I do think it is unethical to buy a CD, rip it to your computer, then sell the CD for profit. This is wrong for obvious reasons.

As far as CD's that are out of print goes- I think in most cases it's ethical to do this. If a CD has been out of print for years, and a person really wants it and somebody has it on disk, I see nothing wrong with that person sending the music to somebody else, while still having the music for themselves either on their computer or on disk...as it might never be in print again. Of course some CD's come back into print, but I personally wouldn't deny myself obtaining music that I love with the hopes that a CD that has been out of print for several years is going to be re-released. It simply might never happen!