Ethics and the Sale of Pre-Owned ITM CDs

[Sirchronique]

I don't think it's unethical.

A few years ago I put about 100 cd's on ebay because I had them on a hard drive and I wasn't really going to listen to those ones any more. After ebay fees I made about $150 and I spent the money on new albums...

The thing is a person who buys a used "Tommy Martin" or whoever cd for $2 on ebay probably wouldn't have spent the $10 or $15 on the same thing new.

Not necessarily. Some people might want the CD and intend to buy it new, but check to see if a used copy is available first, because they'd be getting the same thing for cheaper. I've sought out used copies of books and CD's, after having the initial intention of buying it new. It's the same thing for lower cost, so provided it's in good condition, it would just be throwing money away to get the new copy, in my opinion (except for collectors, maybe).

Regardless, I think it is only a matter of time before the whole deal of paying for music has ended for good. It's easier and easier to get music without paying, and eventually I think musicians won't be able to rely on this for a way to make money anymore, sadly.

[tompipes]

Ennischanter, You'll find some great vinyl bargins on ebay from time to time.

There are a good few sites that specialize in vinyl too. You can pick up some very rare Irish music albums for a great price on Jazz or Classical collectors websites because those collectors aren't interested in Irish music.

Tommy

[tompipes]

Not necessarily. Some people might want the CD and intend to buy it new, but check to see if a used copy is available first, because they'd be getting the same thing for cheaper.

That happens too alright. We've all done it with books and cd's alike.

Regardless, I think it is only a matter of time before the whole deal of paying for music has ended for good. It's easier and easier to get music without paying

Well it can't end for good but it will change. (I don't mean to pick holes in your point, just my opinion)

The money to record has to come from somewhere. The traditional format of recording-production-distribution-sale is changing and may well end but someone has to pay eventually. Artists from Paddy Keenan to U2 still rely on a certain % of gross income from CD sales to be able to afford to tour and perform.

But the economies of scale are changing too. It doesn't cost as much as it used to to record a quality album and with bands releasing albums independant of major labels profit margins are increasing. A major label used to give you $1 or $1.50 per CD sold at $15 in a store. Nowadays your profit margin from a CD sold at a show should be 50% or so, depending on how you distribute production costs per unit.
As a professional musician I'm kinda put off the idea of making another CD, for the above reasons and not knowing where it's all going, but I have tunes and nice arrangements of tunes that I still want to share so I'll get to it eventually.


It's an interesting topic alright!

Tommy

[David Lim]

Yep, interesting topic.

Musicians with a moderate following these days make far more from touring than recorded music sales.
Even to the extent that the cd/mp3/video can be seen as promotional material for the tour.
And not just the tour; the t-shirt, the coffee mug, the ringtone, the perfume...etc etc.
I'm still waiting for that Paddy Keenan aftershave

But of course many top pipers have a day job and don't have the time to tour extensively.

Then there is the principle that everything should have a second hand value.
The recent ReDigi attempt to build up a second hand mp3 market died in the courts.
Now when you buy digital you are now giving up that right.
If you don't think you should sell second hand.... just buy digital.
Then what you have bought has just lost all it's monetary value.

Then there is the idea that the music industry doesn't want you to buy music any more.
They want you to pay a monthly fee and have whatever you want streamed to whatever device you have in front of you.

Lots of changes are happening in how we can choose to use music, mainly driven by piracy and the fight against it.

[CHasR]

Then there is the idea that the music industry doesn't want you to buy music any more.
They want you to pay a monthly fee and have whatever you want streamed to whatever device you have in front of you.
.

Theres the insight right there folks...he;s bullseyed it in one. This is what we are looking at.

[ennischanter]

Ennischanter, You'll find some great vinyl bargins on ebay from time to time.

There are a good few sites that specialize in vinyl too. You can pick up some very rare Irish music albums for a great price on Jazz or Classical collectors websites because those collectors aren't interested in Irish music.

Tommy

Hmm yes, I've seen a couple.

I think it has been proven that vinyl sounds better. Or at-least the people who collect vinyl records stand very strongly with that statement. (I wonder though how vinyl bags would sound in comparison )

In-fact I think Vinyl is going back into style.

[ennischanter]

BTW the album Take Me Tender is available on CD right?

[Peter Duggan]

I think it has been proven that vinyl sounds better.

No.

Or at-least the people who collect vinyl records stand very strongly with that statement.

Yes.

[ennischanter]

Do you come from experience?


Hmmm, just personal preference I guess.......

[Calum]

Top quality vinyl, with properly recorded, mixed, and mastered material, well pressed, on excellent equipment will sound objectively better than CD.

To anyone who grew up listening to their formative music on vinyl, it may well sound better, but probably won't be.

The modern trend for vinyl resurgence is a bit daft, but anything that makes people treat music as a valuable, fragile thing is on balance a positive.

[ennischanter]

I personally wouldn't mind getting vinyl.

At the end of the day, these are just our own opinions.

[glands]

Unethical? Yes. Of course! Any money you make from the sale of a CD that you had created to some other storage form is you taking unfair advantage of the musician and the record company. This is a violation of the "license" that you agreed to upon purchase of the CD. You purchased a right to listen to the music, not really an "object" that you can sell later, all the while keeping the music contained therein.

[MTGuru]

This is a violation of the "license" that you agreed to upon purchase of the CD. You purchased a right to listen to the music, not really an "object" that you can sell later

Actually, that's basically 180 degrees backwards. When you purchase a CD, a physical object that you can resell (or not) is exactly what you are buying. You are not purchasing a license. You are purchasing ownership of the CD and the right to use your own property. You are enjoying the contents under the distribution rights both you and the original seller have by the legal principle of the First-Sale Doctrine.

You are not, however, purchasing reproduction rights - including the rights to make a digital copy. That is the legal restriction under which making a copy of a CD before selling it on is illegal, whether ethical or not.

[Brazenkane]

What about copying for education purposes only?

[Andy FitzGibbon]

My most recent posts have had much to do with ethics, so I thought to continue the idea.

As we have been seeing the sharp decline of the CD over the past years, many of us who have very large CD collections have converted them to more portable (and user friendly) formats. The decline of the CD as a viable format has even stretched to ITM, with many of our favourite artists offering digi-downloads as an alternative to the CD. As for myself, I have well over 200 commercially available ITM CDs, and though I enjoy reading the liner notes, I simply don't use my CDs anymore.

Here's the question:

Is the sale of "pre-owned" commercially available ITM CDs at a discounted price, ethical?

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*Of course, CDs sound better than a compressed file. Yes, there are some sites that offer High-Quality downloads (AIFF, WAV, etc). However, to keep on point, lets aim this thread towards the question of selling Cds, as opposed to discussing the varying quality different files may offer. Thanks.*

If you are worried about the ethics, send to each artist the money you make selling their CD. If they are deceased, donate the money to some sort of musical cause- a youth scholarship at a week somewhere, a Kickstarter campaign to get a new CD funded, or whatever.