A Question for the reed makers out there....

[ImNotIrish]

I have recently started making my own reeds for a Nick Whitmer concert chanter. Currently, I am using a some of Nick's staples and just concentrating on the reed heads. My question is this: I seem to be able to make a decently in tune reed, but have the nasty recurring issues of having an auto cran. Can some one tell me whay this might be happening? I have been able to correct somewhat by 1). opening the lips; 2) scraping at the base of the 'V' . Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Arbo

[myrddinemrys]

one of both of the above. Sometimes it is difficult to nail down on the reed, depending on the chanter. The part that vibrates the most on the reed during the hard D is the base of the V around the edges, so it's important to have flexibility in this region.
A good solution is to use like a folded card or matchstick in the bell of the chanter. I use a bread-tie and roll it into an "O" shape about as wide as the bell, then insert it vertically into the bell.

[ImNotIrish]

I have scraped the 'V' into a 'U' shape and had some success. I do use the rush as you mentioned. Any Idea what causes the autocran in the first place?

[myrddinemrys]

Someone with a better scientific understanding of conical bores may be able to explain it better than I, but my thoughts on it have to do with how the harmonics are reflecting back to the reed. The reed, when the harmonics are thrown back at it needs to be able to flex in a certain way, and if it doesn't, it will resolve to the easiest note: bottom D. Thus, the oscillation between harmonic reflection and resolution to D. The rush at the bell seems to give the harmonics a little better "push" back up the bore. That's my less-than-scientific understanding.

I'd be curious on Bill Haneman's thoughts--I think he has a paper on conical bores on his site.

[an seanduine]

I think Bill's site has pointers to The Sean Reid Society site. which has some discussions on pipe acoustics. I would also like to hear Bill's thoughts.
For what it's worth my understanding is quite close to myrddinemrys. I would only add that the acoustics in that pitch range are complicated by multiple issues. . .the chanter design has to balance keeping the E's close to in tune and keeping the open D, the hard D, and the octave D all close together. When the pipes are off the knee, you are dealing with the "end correction", which as I understand it is why the folded rush trick works. . . The Reed, meanwhile is trying to act like a Chladni plate with different patterns being favored by different pitches.

[Christian Tietje]

Hello ImNotIrish,

what myrddinemrys wrote above is right, works most of the times well.

But in difference I do not scratch further on from the heard after I reached the point, when a good tone appears. The reason is: The reed is a membrane, which vibrates within a frame. After it vibrates sufficiently there is only to get it to a fine tone. You can soften it by reducing the spring-frame, not to be recommended to soften the membrane itself. If the hard bottom "D" does not appear the target is 1rst to create an area inside the frame which is big enough to vibrate double fast for upper harmonics, 2nd slightly to soften the frame, the parts outside at the edge left and right near the base of the V or U (not at the lips) until it is soft enough.

If you scrape too much from the heart - from the thickness of the membrane - it might happen, that it becomes too soft and the second octave is difficult to get above "g".

Would be great it you would be so kind to report from your experience about this

[Evertjan 't Hart]

What often is overlooked are the tips of the lips of the reed, are they really symmetrical?
Take a jeweler's loupe and have a good look especially at the corners.
Sand till they are symmetrical and many problems can be cured including auto crans

Evertjan

[Brazenkane]

are they really symmetrical?
Evertjan

This is the big question, and most people can't achieve real symmetry. It's very difficult to do, and requires very good eyesight/or glasses, and skill. Not to mention, for most reed makers, this is simply not a priority. I struggle with this, but aim for it every time.... well, almost! My latestest reed benifited hugely from what most wouldn't consider unnecessary adjustments to the scrape. In order to get the last 5% out of a reed that is 95% good requires skill, and much experience of having over-pushed a 95% up and past 100% straight to 0% i.e. destroyed it!

[ImNotIrish]

By 'symmetrical,' do you mean the thickness of the lips?
Arbo

p.s. My eyesight isn't what it used to be. So, what do people use to aid in thes manner. I don't know what a 'loupe' is.

[Evertjan 't Hart]

By 'symmetrical,' do you mean the thickness of the lips?
Arbo

p.s. My eyesight isn't what it used to be. So, what do people use to aid in thes manner. I don't know what a 'loupe' is.

A loupe (pron.: /ˈluːp/ loop) is a simple, small magnification device used to see small details more closely. Unlike a magnifying glass, a loupe does not have an attached handle, and its focusing lens(es) are contained in an opaque cylinder or cone or fold into an enclosing housing that protects the lenses when not in use. Loupes are also called hand lenses.

Yes the thickness, both reed blades must be as equal as possible, but pay extra attention to the corners of the tip.

[MTGuru]

A loupe (pron.: /ˈluːp/ loop) is a simple, small magnification device used to see small details more closely.

Harbor Freight sells a cheap 5-piece loupe set (2x to 10x) for $3.99. Not the best quality, but maybe good enough to start.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-lo ... 98722.html

[Brazenkane]

By 'symmetrical,' do you mean the thickness of the lips?
.

I mean both blades being as exact as possible in all ways, shape and form. This starts from the formation of the slip and finishes at the scrape. It's very difficult work, especially for those who are impatient. Doing such work certainly doesn't guarantee perfection, but what it does do is it evens (no pun) the playing field. The reed will work more efficiently, play better, and perhaps even sound better if you strive for this "perfection."

An uneven scrape on one side, or one side compared the other side, uneven edges, etc. all work against the reed performing at it's optimum.

If you've ever played such a reed (as I mentioned above), you'll know instantly. If you haven't yet, well then you'll "get it" when you do. Early on, I had the opportunity to play a really spectacularly made reed, and in my mind's eye (and ear) I always aim for those particular elements in my own reeds.

IMO, as a reed maker it's paramount to one's concept to have such an experience, and if one hasn't had it, search for it.

[ImNotIrish]

By 'symmetrical,' do you mean the thickness of the lips?
.

I mean both blades being as exact as possible in all ways, shape and form. This starts from the formation of the slip and finishes at the scrape. It's very difficult work, especially for those who are impatient. Doing such work certainly doesn't guarantee perfection, but what it does do is it evens (no pun) the playing field. The reed will work more efficiently, play better, and perhaps even sound better if you strive for this "perfection."

An uneven scrape on one side, or one side compared the other side, uneven edges, etc. all work against the reed performing at it's optimum.

If you've ever played such a reed (as I mentioned above), you'll know instantly. If you haven't yet, well then you'll "get it" when you do. Early on, I had the opportunity to play a really spectacularly made reed, and in my mind's eye (and ear) I always aim for those particular elements in my own reeds.

IMO, as a reed maker it's paramount to one's concept to have such an experience, and if one hasn't had it, search for it.

I am trying to do this. Granted, I do sometimes get impatient, and I am well aware of the results when I do so.
On the other hand, even when I try and take my time, look carefully and keep an even count of sanding strokes, I still end up with variants. I have recently started using a blade to scrape, and initially cut the 'church window' as I work down the blades. This I find very difficult to keep even on both sides. Usually rectified by sanding. I need to spend more time with the scrape toward the bottom of the reed as my bottom 'D's' gurgle, and I find that I am having to rework them along the edges of the 'W' , carefult to not remove cane from the middle of that 'W.'
Arbo

[bobkeenan]

By 'symmetrical,' do you mean the thickness of the lips?
.

If you've ever played such a reed (as I mentioned above), you'll know instantly. If you haven't yet, well then you'll "get it" when you .

How does a reed like this play?

[Brazenkane]

By 'symmetrical,' do you mean the thickness of the lips?
.

If you've ever played such a reed (as I mentioned above), you'll know instantly. If you haven't yet, well then you'll "get it" when you .

How does a reed like this play?

In words.... now that is kinda tough;

Somewhat effortless in the regards that the reed does everything you want it to. No fighting, balanced, Every note working like you'd expect it w/the tuning as it should be.

.....something like that....