Uilleann Pipes: (Original Compostion) "Tears of Sorrow"

[Azalin]

I think beyond the fact that one should know his/her instrument before trying something very experimental, one should also have the ear to recognize when something doesn't sound very musical. When your slides, on any instrument, sound like Daffy Duck being strangled by Bugs Bunny, there's something wrong I'd say, in any tradition. But it's just me!

[Squeeky Elf]

I don't know, Elf. I practically have a PhD in surliness. Perhaps the sarcastic tone didn't get through the net.

The problem with point (a) is, why would you spend a gazillion pounds/dollars/whatever on a set of uilleann pipes and then deal with the hassle of keeping the damned things going if you wanted to play the Native American flute? Or make weird avant garde noises? Why not get a musical saw?

I though an overabundance of sarcastic wit was universally regarded as a sign of a healthy psyche, no? Perhaps that’s just wishful thinking on my part.

But why indeed. Take Coltrane for instance, since he’s already been mentioned a few times, whywould a musician capable of sublime music like ‘A Love Supreme’ turn around and spend the rest of his career making music that does nothing but give me migraines? God know I’ve tried!. I find a lot of beauty on the ragged edge of artistic technique myself, but it’s definitely hit or miss. ‘A Love Supreme’ angered a lot of jazz traditionalists when it came out.

...I was using Trane as an example of a person who could play within the idiom of jazz and then push the boundaries and break new ground for other like minded players such as Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders and even Albert Ayler to co create and expand further. My reasoning is that ALL these players weather you like what they achieved or not had a command of their instrument I.e they had chops and could play within the tradition or idiom they chose. They worked hard at perfecting their skills as musicians and performers....

Are you sure about that? I always got the impression that none of those guys could play inside rhythm changes if their lives depended on it. Trane excluded of course. Not that I’ve dug very deep in researching that. But if so, that would take us back to “why?” Surely it would be much easier to just run your nails across a blackboard than learn to play jazz on a saxophone if all you want to do is make people cringe.

If you have an interest in North and South American Native wooden flute music, this is very interesting. That tradition encompasses subtle shades of structure, tone color, rythm, and an ornamentation style quite different than found in western music. Some seem to have the reaction when first hearing Native American Flute music that it all sounds the same-- but that can often be said for initial exposure to Irish trad, at least judging by friends introductions to the music. Or that it is "New Age". Rather, it is a deep and old tradition, that encompasses North and South America, with only a few master practicitioners left. I can't say I know enough about the style to say that the performance is traditionally rooted, or just improv based on a like of the music. I like what I hear though, and always appreciate when someone takes a chance with another style of trad music and improvisation.

That’s my take. It occurs to me that some of the more offended partied might not me aware of this particular tradition. It was clear to me from the get go what was going on and I went along for the ride. I wonder what those steeped in that tradition would have to say?

[rorybbellows]

I dont think anyone was offended by Carp's music just that we didn't like it and some also hear someone who is trying to run before they can walk.


RORY

[tommykleen]

A question for the moderators: so, where does a topic like this ideally sit? Should it be in the UP/youtube topic, or in a clips-n-snips/upload your tunes topic on other forums, or do you think that postings of original/experimental pieces should have their own topics and threads on C&F as in this "ToS" case?

Just curious,

[dunnp]

Last time Carp posted a clip it was moved to the youtube thread.

If Carp is in any way surprised by the reaction here, its a case of being completely alien to the culture of this board.

If on the other hand he wanted some publicity good or bad for the clip, people talking about the compostion, reaction ect., well done then.

[MTGuru]

A question for the moderators: so, where does a topic like this ideally sit?

That's more thought than we can muster, Tom. We're OK leaving it to posters to decide where to post, unless there's a problem.

If Carp is in any way surprised by the reaction here, its a case of being completely alien to the culture of this board.

This board has culture??

Last time Carp posted a clip it was moved to the youtube thread.

Not exactly. According to our records, Carp posted his previous clip to both the YT thread and to separate forum threads multiple times. The duplicates were deleted.

Both times, Carp has offered no context, explanation, or description of his clips. He's not introduced himself to the board, participated in any discussions, or posted anything but these two clips. All of which he's welcome to do, of course.

If someone walked into our session, took out his pipes and played "Tears of Sorrow", then packed up and left without ever saying a word, I don't doubt that the reaction would be similar. It's not Chiffboard culture, but social and musical common sense, if you want to avoid the impression that you're only trying to call attention to yourself, good or bad. Especially if what you're offering is outside the norm, or problematic in terms of tuning (as several have pointed out).

[Cathy Wilde]

Well, the title certainly applies!

[benwalker]

Not so sure that my Coltrane analogy hit the mark
Oh well... On to new things ...Cheerio Folks... Have fun

[rorybbellows]

Not so sure that my Coltrane analogy hit the mark
Oh well... On to new things ...Cheerio Folks... Have fun

No, I think it did. From my point of view ,being a Hendrix fan, when listening to star spangled banner at woodstock , its alot of noise but controlled, intenional with a purpose noise. Actually its hard to put your finger on what it is, but you know in your heart its beautiful.

RORY

[misterpatrick]

Wow. That was something special, that's for sure. I performed, toured and recorded as an experimental musician and composer for years and when I started on the pipes seven years ago was very interested in composing on the pipes as well. My intention was to first learn to play the instrument before embarking on composing either inside the canon or out. I still have yet to actually compose anything and am pretty reluctant to play in front of people most of the time. The pipes are not very forgiving, and while "Celtic" music might be, traditional Irish music isn't either.

I agree that "Native American" music might be interesting on the pipes, but it would really require a deep understanding of that music (which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish) and of the instrument.

[Brazenkane]

If someone walked into our session, took out his pipes and played "Tears of Sorrow", then packed up and left without ever saying a word, I don't doubt that the reaction would be similar. .

My guess is that the reaction would be "elation" upon the packing up and leaving!

One other thing that made the performance so weird; aside from what bensdad pointed out, was the scenery. That, combined with the out-of-tuneness, and the overall unfamiliarity of the genre... it was out there... to say the least. I suppose a "hats off" for going for it and having fun with music, but it was tough to listen to. I couldn't make it through 1/2 of it!

[TheSilverSpear]

Yeah, Brazenkane, I was also trying to figure out the significance of random pictures of Utah.

[Uilliam]

I don't think Carp did it for a reaction or at least he didna ask for subjective analysis...Anyways fer real tears o sorrow and much more important I still have prints for sale to help oor lepers in Sri Lanka...thats all...Carp whitever any one else thinks o ye it is none o yoor business so don't let it bother ye......

[rorybbellows]

Jaysus Uilliam ,did they let you out for good behaviour ? I see your piper in the park drawing made it into tht NPU year book.

RORY

[Uilliam]

Hellooo Rory my carer wansnae caring too much so I slipped oot.Whit is this year book thingy 1st I have heard o it...???