Chiff and Fipple Forums

The second-hand market seems to be booming at the moment so do you have any advice on buying second hand instruments or any tips or opinions on selling instruments?
The one thing that you sometimes see in an advertisment for a chanter that I would not put in the ad is that the chanter has not been played very much, although it maybe the truth, to my mind it might indicate a chanter that is not nice to play.

Whats your opinion on giving your medical history or your financial predicament as a reason for sale?

RORY

rorybbellows wrote:The second-hand market seems to be booming at the moment so do you have any advice on buying second hand instruments or any tips or opinions on selling instruments?
The one thing that you sometimes see in an advertisment for a chanter that I would not put in the ad is that the chanter has not been played very much, although it maybe the truth, to my mind it might indicate a chanter that is not nice to play.

Whats your opinion on giving your medical history or your financial predicament as a reason for sale?

RORY

I think it is absolutely daft giving oot yoor medical details or yoor financial predicament.Do ye need a reason to sell or explain yersel.Surely the set is all that matters in the business deal not how many ops ye have to undergo or how skint ye are..
Do ye see the medical reasons or financial statements coming frae buyers? Erm I am absolutely mad and I have too much money so will ye let me buy yoor set...kinda thing.I think not.

As a potential buyer of instruments*, I think it's a really good idea for sellers to tell me exactly how desperate they are to sell.




* Not that I'm in the market for pipes - I've been forbidden.

To my experience the matter depends more on the individual condition of a set (buying one that is). Each set is very different as to playability. It is a bit like with second hand cars. Everybody wants an "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (egg laying pig that also produces wool), but you have to be lucky to find one. I´m not saying that it is impossible, though. The good thing about pipes:
Everything can comparatively easily be repaired or at least be replaced. Compare that with a fiddle that has been sat upon.
What I found utterly important before cosidering the reeds at all: Any older set MUST be made pressure-tight as a tire first. You can do this yourself. It is a matter of asking youself: Are you willing to do this? Are you able to do this (know-how; tools) Do you have a (willing) pipemaker (the "garage") at hand? Is it (everything considered) then worthwhile for you to buy second hand or wait some years and buy new? (Also a matter of the price, of course)
Some general rules that helped me:
- Even a soundfile might not tell you too much about the (utopic stressless) performance of a set.
- Prefer "name products" (as they allways can be brought back to playability) over "no name" products.
- Never consider the chanter alone but allways the whole set/gear.
- Since you cannot depend on hearing and you cannot know everything: What looks beautiful mostly plays beautiful too: A pipemaker who pays attention to the look of his products will also pay close attention to the playability of his products.
- Sets that are "dripping with ivory" mostly are fishy. Take Matt Kiernan for example. His sets were plain but he had an exellent feeling for proportions and produced exellent surfaces
- This merely is an individual thing: Since I don´t like "Frankensets" at all I pay special attention to "completeness" (wich of course improves the re-selling-value)

I don't want to hear any reasons for the sale and I consider most of them to be a lie anyhow. "Sounds beautiful but hasn't been played in years". 2nd hand sets always need new reeds and leak like a sieve. Accordingly should be priced as such. While it is nice to see a respected name attributed to a set, years of neglect will need a lot of attention and time to bring them back to life. I can well imagine many buyers strapping on their newly purchased set and being underwhelmed by the leaks and tuning of regs, etc. I think many of these sellers over appreciate the value because of their own purchase price and don't want to take a hit. If you are going to buy a 2nd hand set, be prepared to spend some time on it to bring it back to playable condition.

A perfect example of how to present a set of pipes for sale can be found here No mention of sickness or poverty just plain auld selling.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83352

Uilliam wrote:Do ye need a reason to sell or explain yersel.Surely the set is all that matters in the business deal not how many ops ye have to undergo or how skint ye are...

I'm with Uilliam on this one. I'm always amazed at the number of great sets that have seldom or never been played
The only reason for selling a great set is you don't play it. For any reason, doesn't really matter.
Of course selling a poor set of pipes is something else... and you'd find all the reasons in the world but you can't tell

I think it's legitimate to state the reason for selling. The first question that comes to my mind when buying second hand is "what's wrong with it? If it's great set why are you trying to get rid of it?" For someone to say I need the money to pay my kid's University fees gives me a reason as to why someone is selling a great set.

You shouldn´t have written that. Now everybody who wants to get rid of a "rotten piece of firewood" writes (and maybe has no children): "Great set but I need the money for my children´s university fees".

Whats your opinion on giving your medical history or your financial predicament as a reason for sale?

My opinion is: I would like to know the background for the reason of the sale.

Buying pipes from someone who is selling (to raise funds) because their new set is nearly finished, I'm OK with.

Having bought and sold a few sets in the last 10 years, I've become superstitious... and reluctant to 'jump on' purchasing pipes because of (financial or health related) misfortune.

Having said that, I think it's the sellers choice if they reveal the reason for the sale in the advertisement.
"I need the money" is more direct than "Laying around gathering dust"

OK I go to my local garage to buy a car.I see wan I like I road test it examine it etc and if it is whit I want I buy it.I don't ask fer the owners health record,financial circumstances reasons fer selling or any other ludicrous details.The same applies to any commodity I wish tae purchase.Whit on earth makes the pipes so special?I think this is more tae do with ego/personalities.I would probably tell ye tae fecking mind yer own business if'n ye asked questions which had no relevence to the goods fer sale.In a nice way o course.

Incidently the set I have for sale viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83352 is now only £500 but ye have to be quick because my friend wants tae borrow it.

Well... following my post for my A. Rogge chanter that I'm selling and the fact that I've given reasons for doing so I guess I should participate to this discussion !

To me the background for indicating the reasons why I'm selling this chanter (as any other instrument that I have sold in the past) is based on the following:

I'm a member of a french forum on irish flute & whistle (Communauté Francophone des flûtes irlandaise, "la COFFI" : http://whistle.xooit.fr/index.php) which is fairly active.

Although the number of subscribers has constantly increased over the last past years, we pay attention to keep a friendly atmosphere. We're more or less all affected by the WHOA ... so our "for sale" section is quite active and most of the time one of us sends a note for selling a flute or a whistle we have taken the habit to explain why we're selling it: money needed, investment in perspective for another intrument, etc...

So it was for me very natural to explain why I am selling my A. Rogge chanter despite the fact that it is brand new.

To give you a striking example: recently one of our COFFI member - famous to our community as he has incredibly quickly evolved from a total beginner at whistle playing to a fine flute player, was a victim of burglars with some money that he intended to spend on buying an instrument for his son's birthday being robbed.

Given his financial state at the moment and him being desperate at the thought of not being able to treat his son, he thought he had no other choice than selling his most precious flute.

Believe it or not, almost instantly the community has proposed to try and raise money for a loan -a fair amount of money, instead of letting him selling his flute. And before he was even aware of this, we had gathered the full amount needed and were waiting for him to agree with our proposal.

At the end of the day he had managed to solve his problem differently, but was of course deeply touched by our proposal when he had asked for nothing such as this.

This is a very nice story, I think, about a community of non-professional musicians who have succeeded to build up a trusty relationship based on friendly and courteous exchanges despite the distance, age and skill differences and our virtuality. I must admit I'm very proud to be part of it.

I have plans to launch a new "french-talking" forum for pipers and I hope it will work the same way !

Beware of statements as to a set's playability. You rarely have any idea of the playing experience of the seller.
I once made a 350 mile round trip to look at a Woof set that, according to the seller, was "tightly reeded to accommodate the north American climate." Sounds great eh? All the drones fluctuated with pressure and one of them shut off completely, the regs were out of tune, and the chanter reed was unplayable.
Caveat emptor.

Tigrou wrote:Well... following my post for my A. Rogge chanter that I'm selling and the fact that I've given reasons for doing so I guess I should participate to this discussion !

To me the background for indicating the reasons why I'm selling this chanter (as any other instrument that I have sold in the past) is based on the following:

I'm a member of a french forum on irish flute & whistle (Communauté Francophone des flûtes irlandaise, "la COFFI" : http://whistle.xooit.fr/index.php) which is fairly active.

Although the number of subscribers has constantly increased over the last past years, we pay attention to keep a friendly atmosphere. We're more or less all affected by the WHOA ... so our "for sale" section is quite active and most of the time one of us sends a note for selling a flute or a whistle we have taken the habit to explain why we're selling it: money needed, investment in perspective for another intrument, etc...

So it was for me very natural to explain why I am selling my A. Rogge chanter despite the fact that it is brand new.

To give you a striking example: recently one of our COFFI member - famous to our community as he has incredibly quickly evolved from a total beginner at whistle playing to a fine flute player, was a victim of burglars with some money that he intended to spend on buying an instrument for his son's birthday being robbed.

Given his financial state at the moment and him being desperate at the thought of not being able to treat his son, he thought he had no other choice than selling his most precious flute.

Believe it or not, almost instantly the community has proposed to try and raise money for a loan -a fair amount of money, instead of letting him selling his flute. And before he was even aware of this, we had gathered the full amount needed and were waiting for him to agree with our proposal.

At the end of the day he had managed to solve his problem differently, but was of course deeply touched by our proposal when he had asked for nothing such as this.

This is a very nice story, I think, about a community of non-professional musicians who have succeeded to build up a trusty relationship based on friendly and courteous exchanges despite the distance, age and skill differences and our virtuality. I must admit I'm very proud to be part of it.

I have plans to launch a new "french-talking" forum for pipers and I hope it will work the same way !

That wis trooly a lovely little tale.If 'n yoor wee group o philanthropists still have the money they collected ye may be interested in helping ma charity Merci Bucoup

Tigrou wrote: I have plans to launch a new "french-talking" forum for pipers and I hope it will work the same way !

If you do so, I'll be happy to participate !