Unmodified in Tune Pipes?

[karl]

Being new to piping I've asked a couple of questions on this forum about tuning and rushes. The answers I've had have been fascinating (I think so anyway). But this has raised another question in my mind. Before I ask it let me state upfront that this is NOT a criticism of pipe makers, they are doing something I could never do. It's a genuine question I don't know the answer to. The question is can Uilleann Pipes be made in tune? The answers I got to the previous posts suggest that we simply expect that we have to modify the instrument regularly with tape and rushes etc.

An Oboe for example has holes and a reed (simplified I know). If I bought a good Oboe it would be in tune. If the reeds needed replacing I'd put some more in and it would still be in tune (maybe minor adjustments to depth inserted). I wouldn't need to put tape around the holes and put rushes inside it, it would simply play in tune. So why isn't the same true for an Uillean Pipe? Or is it? Am I missing something?

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

My first Robbie Hughes chanter from 1995 was in perfect tune up to second A.. I really don't have huge experience with chanters, but with the second reed i got all the usual headaches, sinking back D, warbling bottom D etc. + some notes slightly off, which would suggest to me it's the reed/staple that plays a huge part in intonation.

[Mr.Gumby]

Firstly, in the case of the oboe you have the embouchure to control intonation. Secondly, not all chanters have or indeed need rushes or tape to play in tune.

[fancypiper]

Everybody has humidity problems (Oboes play wet reed, UP plays dry reeds) and you can force the chanter to be in tune, but you may have to make two reeds, one reed in 65 Deg F weather, another in 90 deg F.

All you can do is delay the response of the reed to the humidity by one or more "weatherproofing the reed" by various methods.

[Steampacket]

Mr. Gumby is correct. I have two Williams D chanters here and a Wooff C chanter that play in tune without any rushes or tape, so far. The Wooff reed is 8 years old. In one Williams the reed is a Williams from 2002-3, and in the other there is a Joseph Smith reed, age unknown, the chanter is from 2004

[TheSilverSpear]

I have a Haneman chanter that is at least in tune with itself without any rushes or tape, though whether it is in tune with everything else depends on temperature, humidity, and how many camping trips and pub sessions I am abusing it with.

[Jarlath.I]

I am lucky to have a chanter that plays in tune without rushes / tape, but I do have a few notes in the upper octive that want to go sharp. I can control this somewhat with bag pressure. I do have a lot of respect for the pipers out on tour, who not only play in all different tempuratures and humidity levels, but also have to stay in tune to A440.

[an seanduine]

Cogratulations!
You've spotted the elephant in the room!

Bob

[CHasR]

An Oboe for example has holes and a reed (simplified I know). If I bought a good Oboe it would be in tune. If the reeds needed replacing I'd put some more in and it would still be in tune (maybe minor adjustments to depth inserted). I wouldn't need to put tape around the holes and put rushes inside it, it would simply play in tune. So why isn't the same true for an Uillean Pipe? Or is it? Am I missing something?

i had a whole life in oboe & eng. hrn prior to pipes. routinely I would make 3-5 reeds, finished , per week, then spend an 'off' week splitting, gouging, shaping, & tying on blanks.
Each reed had its own little idiosyncracies & lifespan, MOST faults could be absorbed by either embrochure and/or high turnover rate. A good oboist with a practised embrochure can take a mediocre reed into stellar realms of timbre, even if it means taking hours off of the reeds playable lifetime.
Obviously, this reedmaking philosophy DID NOT transfer very well to the uilleann pipes. the 'finishing point' on an uilleann reed is far, far further past the 'point of ever diminishing returns' of 90% of all the oboe reeds ive encountered.
In fact of the 24 or so diferent species of bagpipes I own & use, the only chanters without some alteration, (be it tape, wax, or putty,) are brand new chanters awaiting their break in period. Zampogne, HIghland pipes, binious, gaidas, they ALL have some sort of intonational-fix, to fill the gap in the abscense of embrochure & variable pneumatics. It is the fortunate piper indeed whose chanter exhibits pure, naked toneholes.

[Ted]

So common are bagpipe tuning problems it caused one maker/restorer to remark, "never trust a chanter that does not have some tape on or wax in some tone-holes". I think he meant the chanter had been played and sounded good enough to bring into tune. A poor sounding chanter never got into tune because it did not sound good enough for the effort. I have no rushes or wax in my current K&Q chanter.

[hpinson]

In tune may not be what you think it is. Prepare to have your mind whacked but good. Search this forum on the topics of Just Tuning and Equal Temperament tuning. It takes a while to digest.

[Jose' Scotte' Este']

What everyone else said...

and, I have a Haneman C# chanter that is so in tune with itself and the drones it'll make your heart ache!

[Hans-Joerg]

To make a reed for a beginner is dead easy: He adopts exactly to its individual "pressure curve" without any rush. This "adoption" even goes for advanced players, who get new chanters: They "accept" it. The second reed is much harder to make: He/She wants exactly the same "pressure curve" without any rush. Comes to that another problem: To help to keep regulators in tune pieces of cork are glued underneath the pressers to ensure absolutely the same "opening angle". Theoretically, this would be ideal for the chanter, too. It isn´t, unfortunately. I watched differences from piper to piper up to two finger widths. If - additionally - the first reed was made by another maker, making a new reed with the same "performance" without rushing and wax in some toneholes can drive you mad.

The only solution (I think) (and I think that goes for orchestra reed instrument players): Pipers MUST learn how to fine tune their reeds with all "tricks" - including rushing. After all there is no embrochure. Comes to that: An Oboe/Basson/Clarinet... has one reed - a full set seven.

[Uilliam]

Of course ye expect a chanter to be in feckin tune withoot gizmos.In ma humblest opinion.Also in ma humbliest opinion whit kind o maker would try and palm ye aff wi wan that wisnae... na dina bother answering that wan.

[uillmann]

Of course ye expect a chanter to be in feckin tune withoot gizmos.In ma humblest opinion.Also in ma humbliest opinion whit kind o maker would try and palm ye aff wi wan that wisnae... na dina bother answering that wan.

"Humblest" is when I expect a chanter to be in (@#$%&) tune, only to find that Murphy has intervened. You are indeed fortunate never to have been disappointed by your intonation.