Boat shape reed benefits?

[bobblee001]

Is there any practical advantage to boat shaped reeds? The only thing that comes to my mind is that the reed would have a lower internal volume that it's straight counterpart whilst still having wider lips. I cant see how this would be an advantage however. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Bob

[billh]

The boat shaped reed is a result of the whole tie-up geometry, the way the tails are bound around the staple, and other factors. As such, there are lots of differences between boat shaped reeds and parallel-edged reeds, besides the boat shape. (For instance, a boat-shaped reed's sides meet correctly when the slip has more curvature at the tail/staple end than it does at the tip, whereas a parallel-sided reed slip should have the same inside curvature over the entire section of the blade above the wrapping.)

As such, I think it's hard to argue convincingly about the "whys", since there are so many interrelated factors. It might be easy enough to make stuff up that sounds authoritative, but I think I'll decline.

Having made both types over the years, the boat shaped reeds work better for me. I don't know why, but apparently it's not necessary that I do know.



It took some practice before I could make the boat-shaped reeds successfully, but I'm glad I stuck with it.

[bobblee001]

Thanks Bill, Ive got my first attempt drying in the reed stand. I had to soak the tails to get it to close. It;ll probably be a disaster but now I see it can work I'll persevere. It looks very strange next to the others.

Bob

[an seanduine]

It is, or should be, another tool in the Reedmaker's toolbox. When I very first started out learning I was confronted a chanter I simply could not reed. It was purported to be a copy of a very early Leo Rowsome effort. It was short of the normal concert 'D' length, with a more pronounced bore taper, ending in a flared bell section. It was thought to be an attempt at a very loud early 'D'. I couldn't reed it. No one I knew could reed it. It was short in the distance from the back 'D' to the Bell. If you brought in the back 'D', the bell note auto-cranned unless you put an entire scrap-heap of rushes in the bell end.
When I finally saw a true Rowsome of this type, properly reeded and playing well, it had an exageratedly boat shaped reed. Almost like a basson. It had no rushes, and was quite well behaved.
I never did learn to make a reed like that..
Bill, I wonder if you could describe in detail how you would make such a reed?

Bob

[bobblee001]

I too would be most interested in that Bill. I just made my attempt the usual way just shaping the head differently and a good soak to help the tails bend around the staple, I guess it does look rather like a bassoon reed although I was put in mind of a border pipe reed.

Bob
What was the scrape like on thet reed you saw? Was it a vee or more of a U shape? Also where was the bridle, low near the binding or well up toward the lips?


Cheers
Other Bob

[Nanohedron]

I've never heard the term "boat shaped" before. Could someone post comparative pics for me? TIA.

[MTGuru]

[Nanohedron]

Leave it to me to forget the obvious...

[Cathy Wilde]

IIRC, Paddy Keenan makes his reeds boat-shaped. He also makes them with very long heads. Does Finbar Furey (they spent time making reeds together as kids) do that? I've not seen his video, but just wondered if that was one of the "old" ways, especially where Rowesome chanters are concerned?

Meanwhile, I'll go home and look at my notes; I'm pretty sure I traced a slip.

[an seanduine]

Cathy Wilde wrote:

Bob
What was the scrape like on thet reed you saw? Was it a vee or more of a U shape? Also where was the bridle, low near the binding or well up toward the lips?

That makes my head hurt Cathy . . .it was thirty years ago
IIRC it was a U-shaped scrape. The reed appeared relatively short. The binding came well up over the shoulders. It had a relatively broad staple quite close to the winding. The reed was a Jon Pederson build.

Bob

[an seanduine]

Oops! I meant bridle!
The resemblance to a basson reed was striking. . .it had a distinct fan shape to the scraped portion of the reed. I seem to remember the sense of a 'spine' running down the center of the scrape. . .but I could be mis-firing brain cells here. I do know the chanter this reed worked in had bottom 'D' problems, a relative flat 'A' when the back 'D' was brought in with a conventionally formed reed.

Bob

[The Blacksmith]

I have been making lots of reeds to improve my technique.

There is a good diagram showing different reed shapes in the NPU reed making book.

Although I have done it both ways , I now always cut a seat for the staple on the inside of the tail.
That combined with extra thinning on the outer edges of the slip appear to make a reed that is under much less stress and does not move around as much with moisture changes.
The slips grip the staple tightly as well.
I have also tried wetting the tails and binding the slips to the staple with dental floss over night.
This also reduces the stress quite a bit.


Tim

[Cathy Wilde]

Thanks, Bob, for making me sound so much more clever than I really are!

[Cathy Wilde]

Although I have done it both ways , I now always cut a seat for the staple on the inside of the tail.
That combined with extra thinning on the outer edges of the slip appear to make a reed that is under much less stress and does not move around as much with moisture changes.

Oooh, that's cool. Do you just gouge it out a little, or notch it, or ... ?

[Cathy Wilde]

It took some practice before I could make the boat-shaped reeds successfully, but I'm glad I stuck with it.

That's heartening. Mine still tend to look like garbage scows.