Daye pipes

[Uilleann915]

I think I may be set on these, both for cost reasons and for positive word of mouth....but a few questions for those who have played the Daye set.

#1. The do it yourself kit set (bellows kit & bag kit)....I am not very handy, and even though I might be able to put together the bellows, for some reason the thought of glueing the bag together etc. frightens me....is this the case or does the bag come sealed up already? Has anyone screwed up their kit, and if so what then? Do you have to do some sewing when it comes to the bag cover/fringe, etc.?

#2. Vinyl vs. leather bag....I think I would like to upgrade to the leather bag, and have only one question....the maker's site says no stitching, glue used....am I wrong to have a little more faith in stitching or rivets as opposed to glue? I explored other maker's bag/bellows, and I think I've decided against that, again for cost as well as wanting to know that bag/bellows/chanter will be in air-leakless-harmony with one another, at least before I start squeezing it to death.

#3. Concert vs. flat....I am a totally new piper, but even so, should I be in for the long haul I see myself sticking to solo playing, probably always on a practice set, slow airs sort of stuff maybe. Volume is also an issue, as quieter would probably be better for my household.

Thank you for any help you can give....I have heard nothing but good things about Daye's pipes, but had these few questions.

[magroibin]

Here's my two cents:

If you aren't that handy then go for the assembled stuff. Then make up on the extra cost by going with the vinyl bag. (I have both leather and vinyl bags and for a practice set I feel the latter is fine...I mean come on, Paddy Keenan uses them!)

And finally if you are a new piper you WILL find yourself in learning situations with other students who are playing concert chanters. Also, Daye offers a "wide bore" C chanter option so I assume the volume difference will be at par with the "apartment D" chanter option.

So...there you have it. 2 cents.

Paul

[hpinson]

1. If you are considering the chanter kit, you can easily mess up on supergluing the brass tubes together, and in drilling the holes. Given my own experience, it seems likely that you will mess up. It took me three tries to get it right, at my own expense. The process of assembling the vinyl bag and bellows is much more forgiving. If in doubt, just buy a fully assembled practice set from David, and then you can be assured of a working rig.

If you do decide to assemble yourself, measure and measure again, and practice the process assembling the tubes before actually gluing. For hole drilling a small drill press is really helpful (I would say essential for any precision). Drill with brand new sharp bits at a low speed. Cost savings may be offset by the acquisition of the drill and bits. Make sure to fill any voids with superglue, before drilling.

2. David claims his glued leather bags are holding up well over time without rivets or sewing, and he is entirely credible, so I would trust this is the case. Perhaps ask him if there is a guarantee on the bag welt. Perhaps ask if he would be willing to rivet at extra cost.

3. David's narrow bore D is delightful but very quiet. If you will be playing in a session, the wide-bore concert D might be a better choice. It's very nice too, but louder and more strident. The C chanter is also very nice.

[Uilleann915]

Thanks for the tips. While I am trying to keep cost down (and still thus far falling short) I am definitely NOT going to try to assemble/drill the chanter....bag & bellows only.

Is the standard chanter narrow bore? I (and my large household) am actually just fine with quiet....by narrow bore do you mean his "apartment" chanter? That brings me to another question....I think I prefer the sound of flat chanters, but conventional wisdom that I have read here & other Uilleann sites say a beginning should start on a D.....any thoughts on whether to start learning on a D, C#, C, whatever?

[PJ]

Standard is wide bore. I don't know if the Daye appartment chanter is a true narrow bore. I understand it uses the same reed as the wide bore. You might want to ask DD.

[hpinson]

Yes. Both are really nice. One (Concert) is louder and one (Apartment) is quieter, and to my ear, sweeter.

I can give an opinion of which to key choose-- D, mainly because of the vast body of available recordings, written music, tutorials, and live sessions that you can participate in, with an instrument in that key.

Lots of folks eventually seem to gravitate to lower-keyed flat chanters because they sound and behave so nicely. But most get the foundation of a D chanter first. The D Apartment Chanter is a nice compromise.

[Joseph E. Smith]

I can give an opinion of which to key choose-- D, mainly because of the vast body of available recordings, written music, tutorials, and live sessions that you can participate in, with an instrument in that key.

Lots of folks eventually seem to gravitate to lower-keyed flat chanters because they sound and behave so nicely. But most get the foundation of a D chanter first. The D Apartment Chanter is a nice compromise.

IMHO, a sound suggestion. Make it 'D'.

You are about to embark into a new realm of playing, understanding, frustrarion and obsession. At this point, I also wish to recommend you peruse Patrick D'Arcy's awesome website: http://www.UilleannObsession.com . A most brilliant and informed resource point!

G'luck!

[Tristan]

I second, (or third, fourth, or whatever) what others have said regarding key and bore. The 'apartment' D is going to be your best way to get started for the reasons already stated ('apartment' variant for volume and domestic tranquility; Key of D for maximum compatibility with teachers, recordings and other musicians)

If I'm reading your original post correctly, you're looking at buying Dave's "Easy Kit" option, correct? Assuming he's still doing it the same as he was a few years ago when I went that same route (and it looks like he is), the bag and bellows were completely sealed when they arrived. There was some stitching required for the bag cover (and fringe, if you want that), and I think I had to tie in the PVC connectors for the chanter and blowpipe, but those were both pretty easy, and the instructions included were very clear. For the bellows, you only needed to attach the pads and straps, basically... the wood clappers and leather gusset were completely finished and sealed. And, of course, the chanter is complete as is. So basically most of the critical "functional" parts are done for you. You're mostly just doing the aesthetic finishing touches.

I've got his standard vinyl bag and have had no problems with it leaking. And the bellows are the most efficient, airtight bellows I've tried--enough so that I still use them even though I've otherwise upgraded to a half-set by a more traditional maker now.

The Easy Kit really doesn't have much that can be easily screwed up, and is a great way to cut costs.

Hope that helps!

-Tristan

[Uilleann915]

That actually helps a lot, Tristan, thank you....when I take the leap I will probably confirm with Mr. Daye what he currently does....

Your reply causes me to think of another question....how important does everyone think a double-padded bellows is? My short-lived 1st attempt at uilleann piping was with a CJ Dixon set, which was double-padded and comfortable. Is a 2nd body side pad necessary, or is it comfortable as the flat wood? I was considering asking Mr. Daye for an extra pad & his thoughts on how to affix a 2nd pad....

[Bill Reeder]

That actually helps a lot, Tristan, thank you....when I take the leap I will probably confirm with Mr. Daye what he currently does....

Your reply causes me to think of another question....how important does everyone think a double-padded bellows is? My short-lived 1st attempt at uilleann piping was with a CJ Dixon set, which was double-padded and comfortable. Is a 2nd body side pad necessary, or is it comfortable as the flat wood? I was considering asking Mr. Daye for an extra pad & his thoughts on how to affix a 2nd pad....

My first bellows was unpadded. I had callouses and a slight bruise on my hip and elbow, and my ribs would ache after long playing sessions. This went on for about five years until I upgraded to a Dow bellows which was padded on both sides. I highly recommend the double-padded bellows.

[Tristan]

That actually helps a lot, Tristan, thank you....when I take the leap I will probably confirm with Mr. Daye what he currently does....

Your reply causes me to think of another question....how important does everyone think a double-padded bellows is? My short-lived 1st attempt at uilleann piping was with a CJ Dixon set, which was double-padded and comfortable. Is a 2nd body side pad necessary, or is it comfortable as the flat wood? I was considering asking Mr. Daye for an extra pad & his thoughts on how to affix a 2nd pad....

I only have the elbow-side pad myself, and have never found it uncomfortable, but then, I have, ahem, a bit more built-in padding along my side than many do... so take that for what it's worth.

[Mike Hulme]

If you are going to play for long periods of time then comfort is essential. I make all my bellows with double pads as standard now. They take a little longer to make, but the benefits are great. Additionally, having the bellows that little bit further away from your waist assists the pumping action. Here are some I made earlier.

[Uilleann915]

Thoes look very nice....maroon leather looks sharp too.

[fast food piper]

I've heard several sets of David's pipes and all of them were very nice. Daye pipes are
one of the best kept secrets out there and they are gradually gaining more respect in
the piping community.

I rarely see used sets of his pipes come up for sale; and his waiting list is over six months
at this point.

For the monetarily challenged piper, you just can't do any better than Daye pipes!

[Kevin f. Gilstrap]

I rarely see used sets of his pipes come up for sale; and his waiting list is over six months
at this point.

You're correct about the wait. I ordered a set in February and they're expected to be here mid September, if all goes well. I'm pretty certain that I will die before they get here.