How do you scrape yours ?

madfortrad · Post by **madfortrad** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:08 pm

Hi All

Just a quick question

How many reedmakers begin the scrape with a knife? Conversly how many go straight to sanding?
Whats are your thoughts on the process of scraping you employ?

looking forward to responses

Brazenkane · Post by **Brazenkane** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:04 pm

knife, then paper, then more knife in specific areas to tweak and / or paper.

then..

loads of prayer!

misterpatrick · Post by **misterpatrick** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:25 pm

It was very interesting to watch Cillian O'Briain use a chisel to start his scrape on NPU's Heart of the Instrument. Also, watching him whip together a drone reed in about 1 minute was great.

madfortrad · Post by **madfortrad** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:32 am

misterpatrick wrote:It was very interesting to watch Cillian O'Briain use a chisel to start his scrape on NPU's Heart of the Instrument. .

Really

didn't know that! Thanks

I've made reeds for quite a few years and also taught a few reedmaking workshops.
In all this time i've come to conclude that the majority of beginner reedmakers fail at the scraping stage. Often not removing material where needed and taking of material that should remain.
I've personally experimented with nearly all of the known methods and I find the chisel approach best suited for my reeds. Furthermore, to those that now have a high suceess rate at reedmaking, when they experimented with the chisel sucess was improved. ( All citing that the scrape was better defined with a more consistent degree of symmetry in the blades.)

Looking forward to hearing what other makers favour

misterpatrick · Post by **misterpatrick** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:59 am

Definitely pick up the DVD, it's really great to see the different approaches. Cillian's method is interesting as it pretty much does the entire scrape in one quick move with a chisel before he ties on the slips. Then it's just some finish sanding.

madfortrad · Post by **madfortrad** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:19 am

misterpatrick wrote: Cillian's method is interesting as it pretty much does the entire scrape in one quick move with a chisel before he ties on the slips. Then it's just some finish sanding.

Thats what i do

although have only been experimenting over the past six months or so. I was totally unawere that Cillian uses this method. The idea came to me after some great discussions with Brian Howard on reedmaking ( and all things related

). Brian uses a pre-scrape method also (although far more intricate and accurate than a humble chisel) and the results he had shown me convinced me that it was the way to go. My own experimentation has shown this also.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:55 am

Brazenkaine wrote:knife, then paper, then more knife in specific areas to tweak and / or paper.

then..

loads of prayer!

pretty much the same with me... but there's usually more coffee involved.

billh · Post by **billh** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:16 pm

I start the scrape with a chisel too, just to give the sandpaper a good surface to grab. It can be done with the gouge if one doesn't overdo it.

Steve Turner · Post by **Steve Turner** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:41 pm

So, have I understood correctly? Some people are using a chisel (flat blade), as opposed to a gouge (curved blade), to do the scrape? I made a reed this evening, using my standard method, but instead of using the gouge to create a scrape, I used a 12mm chisel. I then put the two halves together, sanded the scrape and put on a bridle etc. I haven't tried the reed yet as its a bit late, and I like to rest them for at least 24hours, but the crow is very nice.

Using the chisel meant that the scrape was a bit flatter than I would normally get with the gouge, and the edges of the reed head are a tiny bit thicker. A degree of curvature was introduced into the blades by tieing onto the staple and the 'eye' formed at the lips of the reed is well formed and looks right.

I will try the reed tomorrow, and if its any good, I may migrate to using a flat chisel instead of the gouge to do the scrape....thats if I have got hold of the right end of the stick, and I'd be grateful if someone could confirm?

Regards,

Steve

billh · Post by **billh** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:58 pm

I believe we're talking about the *outside* of the reed, i.e. the "scrape" as opposed to the "gouge". At least, that's what I'm talking about, and my understanding of the original question. Most folks I know use the term "the scrape" to refer only to the outside of the reed.

Steve Turner · Post by **Steve Turner** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:13 pm

billh wrote:I believe we're talking about the *outside* of the reed, i.e. the "scrape" as opposed to the "gouge". At least, that's what I'm talking about, and my understanding of the original question. Most folks I know use the term "the scrape" to refer only to the outside of the reed.

Thanks Bill,

Yes, thats what I meant also, ie, the internal aspect of the slip was prepared using an in-cannel gouge (as normal), but this time I used a flat bladed chisel instead of an out-cannel gouge to start the scrape (external aspects) on both blades.

madfortrad · Post by **madfortrad** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:37 pm

Hi Steve

The scrape will remain the same. As in that once all has been said and done comparing two reeds with the different scrape methods should not be noticably different.
The point that i am researching is that using the chisel allows the scrape to be more consistent rather than using a knife and sandpaper ( which can be a bit crude)

I bet the reed you made will be a real singer.

Just to clarify i'm in no way trying to say one is better than the other. Over 15 years using the knife and sand method i have made some excelllent reeds ( some of which can be heard commercially)
The chisel allows the reedmaking process to become more streamlined and for those that are a bit heavy handed when scraping a reed the chisel allows the shape to be defined easier. Thus a potentially good reed may not be ruined at the latter stages due to excessive sanding, which in my experience is where the majority of reedmakers can fail.

It is at this point that the reed comes to life and if not done correctly in relation to the make up of the reed disaster can ensue

Im sure some people may not warm to this method. One slip with the chisel and the reed WILL be ruined. Perhaps the less confident prefer the sanding approach as results can be assertained gradually and corrective measures taken if need.

For those who have a high reedmaking sucess rate i would encourage a try with this method. Experimentation is a useful learnig aid and developing the skills to use this method will improve your reedmaking in terms of tool use and comfort with use of tools. As opposed to " oh God now comes the scary part" every time you lift a sharp chisel or gouge

Good luck all and i hope that some of you find this topic of interest

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:56 am

Hello,

I use a gouge (#4, if I remember correctly, cannelled not incannell and the 'blade' area has been ground to give a better cutting angle, maybe a picture would be better than my explanation?) to set the preliminary scrape. I think this is better than using a chisel, as the chisel can leave a weak spot in the spine of the reed, whereas a cannelled gouge imparts a curve to the scrape, leaving the blades thickness at the scrape more regular, allowing you more control over the final fine scraping with the knife/paper of your choice. And you can cut the scrape a little deeper too.

As Patrick says, this method puts more uniformity into the outcome, which can only be a good thing. It also takes some tension out of the blade so tying on becomes a less hazardous process as well.

Brazenkane · Post by **Brazenkane** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:57 pm

Alan-Indeed, show a picture of the gouge and where did you get it? I would Imagine that this (scrap-starting) occurs on your rounded block or cylinder? I invoke a similar thing by cutting a diamond (ala T. Britton) shape on the back of the slip after cutting the tails. It's not really that symmetrical (although Tim does it beautifully). It serves to allow me to halve the slip sans cracking ( and it works every time, btw).It does give me a prelim. scrape which I tidy up, but I'd like to finally purchase one of those gouges.
Also, what is the best way to sharpen a gouge? (Ashley?) I'd like to see detailed pics of, or better yet...a youtube movie.

(Get to work Alan!

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:36 am

Hope this gives an idea. It's just an Ashley Iles (#4?) cannelled gouge that has been ground to add curvature to the 'blade' face. Sorry for lack of real technical terms. I'm sure you can use wider/different gauge gouges.
I think sharpening is just common sense? I use a waterstone for this gouge and my knives and Indian whatsit curved stone for the incannell gouges. HTH, as they say on the internet.

And I can see there's a blob on my sensor.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

How do you scrape yours ?

How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?

Re: How do you scrape yours ?