bag size?

[pigwhistle]

Hi Folks.
Would anyone be able to supply me with the dimentions of both the Seth Gallagher and Tim Britton uilleann pipe bags please.
I'm told that they both make bags on the larger side which is what I'm after.I did inquire direct but did'nt get a reply. Also does anyone know where I can purchase stocks and blowpipe fittings.
Thankyou.

[Hans-Joerg]

I don´t think it a good idea to increase the size of the bag.
1. Unlike other bagpipes Uilleann Pipes have a "wider" stretch of pressure. The pressure for a concert pitch second 8ve B is ~ 60 millibars (of course depending on the reed and your personal taste of sound). Gases are liable to compression. To gain a certain pressure logically you have to squeeze a bigger bag harder (wie Blücher anne Bulletten) - which of course is inconvenient and reduces your virtuosity.
2. Sometimes the bag has become fairly empty - especially if you used your regs and played a fairly "open" passage. The "good playability" of a set depends (Mike Hulme once emphazised this also) basically on how quickly you can reach the "top" pressure again (only one stroke of the bellows; the "ratio" between bag and bellows seems very important).

The place escapes me now but somebody reported about the feelable better playing-conveniance of Leo Rowsome´s so called "stamp bags".

[uillmann]

I don´t think it a good idea to increase the size of the bag.
1. Unlike other bagpipes Uilleann Pipes have a "wider" stretch of pressure. The pressure for a concert pitch second 8ve B is ~ 60 millibars (of course depending on the reed and your personal taste of sound). Gases are liable to compression. To gain a certain pressure logically you have to squeeze a bigger bag harder (wie Blücher anne Bulletten) - which of course is inconvenient and reduces your virtuosity.
2. Sometimes the bag has become fairly empty - especially if you used your regs and played a fairly "open" passage. The "good playability" of a set depends (Mike Hulme once emphazised this also) basically on how quickly you can reach the "top" pressure again (only one stroke of the bellows; the "ratio" between bag and bellows seems very important).

The place escapes me now but somebody reported about the feelable better playing-conveniance of Leo Rowsome´s so called "stamp bags".

Very true. Additionally, since no leather is entirely airtight, if leather is your preference, then the more area a bag has, the more it will leak. The same holds true for stitches. Basic principles of levers dictate that a small bag held high in the underarm will, like a nutcracker, require less shoulder muscle than a bag held at the end of the lever, at the elbow. This is why we do not hold pliers on the little end and try to grip things in their handles. An attempt to actually use all of the air in a large, fully-inflated bag, leaves the piper's elbow flapping wildly, farther from their torso like the wing of a startled leghorn, and pulls the left hand away from the chanter. In practice, no piper actually uses all of the air in a large and unwieldy bag, and those players that remain committed to such a waste of hide tend to apply pressure at the neck, as though they were wrangling something for dinner. This leaves fully 90% of the bag hanging somewhere behind the player, as useless as a bloated carcass on a forgotten roadside. If the reeds are extremely light, efficient, and require very little pressure, and the novice has not yet learned to play the regulators while simultaneously utilizing the bellows, they may be under the misconception that large bags would afford the ability to handle occasional regulator passages with greater ease. They may even attempt to use the large bag to support the body of pipes to facilitate a more practicable regulator key placement - an obstacle better ameliorated with the use of a simple shoulder strap. They may also, over time, develop an inflammation of the ulnar nerve, due to the concentration of pressure at that not-so-funny bone, which may leave the A finger numb - a most unhelpful phenomenon. Although there are nerves in the armpit as well, they are better protected by the muscle and sinew there, and the larger surface contact that the underarm affords allows this pressure to be distributed over a larger area. Smaller bags are undoubtedly superior, and although it is true that everyone's physiology differs, it would be wholly unlikely that someone could successfully support an argument in favor of balloon-like bags, and the attempt to insist on as much would indicate their predisposition to avoid an improvement in favor of the conveniently familiar, and an unwillingness to permit the undermining of their own long-touted opinions. Though basic ergonomics have occasionally been forsaken during the initial development of such contrivances, those wise performers who seek greater deftness and agility on the pipes will ultimately favor the rack-and-pinion feel of the smaller, tighter envelope of compressed air.

[straycat82]

I am currently playing one of Tim Britton's bags. I am a beginner and purchased that bag on a recommendation from another piper who was helping me get started. BTW, Tim does supply and tie in the stocks (for a fee, of course) when you order them from him.
So far I have mixed feelings about the oversized bag. I've played on both and it seems to me that the smaller bags do give you a bit more control than the larger bag. What I did notice as a plus to the larger bag was that the height of it helped to keep it up under the arm a little easier but I don't know if that outweighs the control you get from a smaller bag. I've come to hold the large bag in a way that I have only the smallest part of the bag (right before the neck) under my arm and that has helped to regain some focused control. As far as topping off the bag, the way I see it is that whether you are using a big or small bag, when you start off with a full bag and play X amount of air through the chanter you will have to replace X amount of air regardless of which bag you use. If the same bellows is being used then you are still moving the same exact amount of air to top off a big or small bag. You just have to pay attention to not let the big bag get so empty that you need more than one bellows pump to top it off again.

I think I might be switching to a smaller bag before too long. I am still inexperienced but it just seems to me like you get more mileage and control out of your arm with the smaller bag.

[nwhitmer]

I'll speak up in favor of a larger bag. Define terms, first. The first bag I ever had was a McHarg bag, laid flat the dimensions are about 27” by 11”. Over the years I have heard this design referred to as “Taylor style.” I believe, but don't know for certain, that this is the size Britton would supply. There is a pic of such a bag, tho not by McHarg, on my website.

http://mysite.verizon.net/nwhitmer/detailpipes.html#bag

My perception is that a larger bag "smooths out" the change of bag shape and potential change in air pressure when a stroke of air comes from the bellows. This compared to a smaller bag. As an extreme example, compare a bag which could be filled with 4 strokes of the bellows to one which could be filled with 8 strokes. The impact on the bag of one stroke will be different in proportion to the volume of the bag. I would argue that with a larger bag 1) the bag is deformed less between strokes and 2) the larger volume of air in the bag acts as a a bit of a cushion against rapid changes of incoming pressure during the bellows stroke. These are good things.

Anyway, as with so much in the UP world, there are different ways of thinking about the bag & bellows, and there is no one slam-dunk way to proceed.

BTW, years ago Britton played with an enormous, medieval, Bruegel-looking bag which stuck out behind him a good distance. Don't know if he still does. It did seem excessively large to me.

Regards,

Nick Whitmer

[pigwhistle]

Thankyou very much everyone for your replies, they are all very helpful and informative.It seems that most of the opinion on the forum is in favour of the smaller bag for reasons that I can easily comprehend and see the logic in, but the bag that came with my second hand pipes is like this slippery little bubble that keeps sliding out from under my arm and ends up down at my elbow anyway therefore reducing the amount of control, hence my interest in a larger bag with the suede on the outside hoping it will then stay tucked under my armpit better as does the bag on my SSPs'. Comfortability is surely also part of having proper control.It's good to get an opinion, also with logic and experience behind it, in favour of larger bags from pipe maker Nick Whitmer,along with the other experinced opinions it offers an informed balance to my decision making,thankyou all.

[simonknight]

Seth uses and sells L&M bags. To me they are a normal size, and they're airtight, after 9 years. I replaced the bag on a Angus B set with an L&M bag - huge improvement. The original was narrow and leaked like a sieve even after filling it with goop.

Buy one.

[Dionys]

I play both a Britton bag and a Row(e)some stamp bag (original). I've also used a custom L&M at the same pattern/size as a Britton bag. I wouldn't not-recommend the larger bag simply based on size and concerns over pressure. In fact a larger bag can be better in terms of simply 'gripping' the bag when you're a taller person without the extra baggage to fill in the arm-space. Nick's also right concerning the 'smoothing out' of bellows strokes, but that's just something to be aware of rather than a plus/minus in the long run.

The best solution is to try out someone's set with a larger bag and see how it works for you. Otherwise you're spending ~120$ (+/-) to 'test' out a new bag (be sure to keep your old bag to retie your set into if you don't like the big new one).