What woods were uswd by makers long ago?

bobblee001 · Post by **bobblee001** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:08 am

I assume that makers long ago didn't have access to these wonderful modern hardwoods. Did they use whatever was to hand ( apple, cherry ) or am I missing something? Does anyone know where I can find a decent supply of boxwood (buxus sempenvirons ), the supplies I used to use seem to have dried up?

Thanks
Bob

MichaelLoos · Post by **MichaelLoos** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:23 am

Timbers like laburnum, holly and of course boxwood seemed to be quite popular among pipemakers, also the local fruitwoods.
For boxwood, try
www.octopus.com.tr/store/
www.cropp-timber.com
www.theodor-nagel.com

billh · Post by **billh** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:35 am

Tropical hardwoods including ebony and african blackwood have been available, though expensive, since before uilleann and union pipes existed. So in that sense your assumption isn't correct.

I know of several sets of pastoral pipes from around 1770 made of ebony. Boxwood was also very popular for pipes.

Some of the early Coyne and Kenna sets were made from a lighter wood which has never been positively identified. It is usually referred to as "fruitwood" but in fact we don't know what wood it is - "fruitwood" is a term that can be used to refer to various nut woods and other native species.

Bill

Davy Stephenson · Post by **Davy Stephenson** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:05 am

Stamped Egan, c 1770 early uilleann pipes made from African blackwood, stock probably walnut, pitched baroque pitch D, which equates to C# in modern pitch, posting ammended 19.43 Oct 24 2007.

http://www.bagpipeworks.co.uk/archives%20e.htm

DDS.

waymer · Post by **waymer** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:12 am

Below is a real piece of working history, A full set of J Egan senior c1765

lovingly restored by Peter Hunter over several years, pitched in narrow bore D

chanter, with hollow drone stock tied straight into the bag, she has hollow screw on mounts

and a single tenor regulator.

Man and all this time I believed that guy Royce when he said narrow bore D was a modern invention/abomination

John Mulhern · Post by **John Mulhern** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:54 am

Davy, any info on the screw-on mounts? Similar in design to modern GHB threaded mounts??? I've heard before that longevity could be a problem, due to the slightly greater clearance compared to glued mounts, but these seem to have lasted 240 years.

Davy Stephenson · Post by **Davy Stephenson** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:45 pm

Stamped Egan, c 1770 early uilleann pipes made from African blackwood, stock probably walnut, pitched baroque pitch D, which equates to C# in modern pitch, posting ammended 19.43 Oct 24 2007.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:22 pm

billh wrote:It is usually referred to as "fruitwood" but in fact we don't know what wood it is - "fruitwood" is a term that can be used to refer to various nut woods and other native species.

No one's ever had the chutzpah or the curiousity to shave off just enough for a DNA test?

billh · Post by **billh** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:08 am

s1m0n wrote:
billh wrote:It is usually referred to as "fruitwood" but in fact we don't know what wood it is - "fruitwood" is a term that can be used to refer to various nut woods and other native species.
No one's ever had the chutzpah or the curiousity to shave off just enough for a DNA test?

Unfortunately as far as I know the DNA of most wood species hasn't been sequenced sufficiently to allow for that. Positive identification requires microscopic analysis of sections of "clean" wood. True, only a small sliver would be required, but an end grain section would be required. Perhaps someone will find the end of an already-chopped Coyne chanter and a thin section can be shaved off. Of course you need a very skilled wood identification specialist to tell the difference between some of these species, as well..

Bill

bobblee001 · Post by **bobblee001** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:49 am

Hmmm What species of tree do I get chutzpah wood from????

Bob

Elmek · Post by **Elmek** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:36 am

and of course for the rich customers the renowned creamy 'wood' that takes a beautiful finish from the elephant tree

Beau Comiseau · Post by **Beau Comiseau** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:44 am

bobblee001 wrote:Hmmm What species of tree do I get chutzpah wood from????

Bob

I'd guess olive.

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:55 pm

Hi Pipers !
Nobody has mentioned Greenhart or Green Heart wood which is
a type native to Ireland ? Or am I mis-informed, as usual ?
Matt Keirnan used that wood for many of his Chanters and Half sets.
Hornbeam wood that Julian Goodacre uses, is a native or no.....?
There's a wood they use for Zampognas in Sicily, which is Ellica
or Erica wood, also called "Heather wood" (Ted Anderson, help me here!)
and the aged wood of my Ciaramedda, has that same Yellowy / light brown color, that I've seen on some old sets ( and Chanters) of Irish Pipes.
I wonder if THAT's the "Mystery" wood that's mentioned here ?
Sean "woody" Folsom

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:01 am

The root burl of Erica arborea is the standard wood for smoking pipes. It was only settled on as the timber for that purpose after hundreds of years of unsuccessful attempts at using elm, boxwood, etc. Mostly a Mediterranean wood, and not used much for smoking pipes until the later 19th century - before that it was clay pipes (in Irish, dudeen, which as Sean says is related to the bagpipe names dudy, dudelsack, etc.), meerschaum (a mineral), etc., so I'm not sure why it would be imported to the British Isles when the old sets were made. But who knows?

Laburnum was mentioned, that's pretty hard stuff. I remember reading it was used for Highland pipes sometimes.

stew · Post by **stew** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:51 am

I think something like these woods might not be far away, Boxwood, Labernum, Fruit woods = pear, plum, Damson. Rosewood, Blackwood,Ebony.
all the best.