Hornpipes

[PJ]

I don't know enough hornpipes (only 4 or 5) but I'm trying to fix that situation by learning more. However, what annoys me is that pipers play hornpipes very fast, almost the same speed as a reel.

A few years ago I was asked to play from some step dancers. When they asked me to play a hornpipe, I found that the rhythm and speed of the tune was not at all like what they were dancing. I ended up playing a jig at slow speed and that worked out fine for everyone.

I've since come to the conclusion that hornpipes should be played VERY slowly (maybe played as 12/8 instead of 4/4). As a dance tune, it's got to be able to fit in with the rhythm of the dancers.

[Elmek]

You probably already know it already but if not 'Boys of Bluehill' is a standard and just seems to naturally fall under the fingers and is easy to play up tempo

[Patrick D'Arcy]

I've since come to the conclusion that hornpipes should be played VERY slowly (maybe played as 12/8 instead of 4/4). As a dance tune, it's got to be able to fit in with the rhythm of the dancers.

Hi PJ,

This is a modern interpretation of the hornpipe. Hornpipes aren't supposed to be played at such a dead slow speed, they are supposed to have life in them. The slowing down of hornpipes is a result of the dance being made more complicated for competition. 100 years ago or even 50 years ago the hornpipe wasn't as it is today. The dancers then would have an embelishment that they'd throw in here and there but the dance has developed into one long embelishment and to allow the dancers to get all their steps in the music gradually slowed down over the years.

Play your hornpipes with vigour (within reason now!) .... let the dancers figure it out!

Pat.

[meemtp]

I agree w/ PD. Hornpipes were originally meant to be "jaunty" and as a tune form didn't even have competitive step dancing in mind.

That said, I love to hear some hornpipes played slow...ie Brian McNamara's performance of "The Groves".

[Patrick D'Arcy]

That said, I love to hear some hornpipes played slow...ie Brian McNamara's performance of "The Groves".

Yes, that is a great speed for a hornpipe... especially one like the Groves with all the twiddley bits

I have to retract that statement. I hadn't heard that piece in along time but just gave it a listen and see that it's very slow. It seems Brian was trying to make a piece out of it. If it was being played as a hornpipe it'd be faster and with a daycent dose of spirit - I am in the jaunty camp... but not overly so

PD.

[PJ]

Thanks for the information. I was not aware of the development of the hornpipe dance over the last 50-100 years. This makes a lot of sense.

The Boys of Bluehill is one of the few hornpipes that I play. I agree that it sounds and plays well when the tempo is more relaxed.

By the by, the hornpipes played by Waterford pipers (JOBM and DP) seem to me to be at a relaxed pace but are packed with tight triplets. Tight triplets really come into their own with hornpipes - they sound much more natural in a hornpipe than in a reel or jig (IMHO).

[Roger O'Keeffe]

(Solo) stepdancers like hornpipes played very slowly so that they can do all the embellishments, as mentioned.

Set dancers, on the other hand, seem to like them played faster than I can manage to play even a reel . I fall back on the Ennis defence when anyone enquires about playing for dancers.

[mayo_piper]

Pat is right (as usual )

On my Highland pipes our pipe band played Boys of Bluehill in compition and we played it just a hair slower than a reel. Obviously a heavy first beat adds the feel and flavor of the hornpipe.

Thanks again Pat for the history!

[meemtp]

The Ennis Defense? That's a Chess opening isn't it...Lugano 1903?

[Patrick D'Arcy]

By the by, the hornpipes played by Waterford pipers (JOBM and DP) seem to me to be at a relaxed pace but are packed with tight triplets.

These are the tempos I'd consider ideal aswell. I have had to play hornpipes so slow that the melody would get lost completely... or maybe that was just my playing

There's a very nice book that discusses the relationship between dancing and the music that I highly recommend called "The Story of Irish Dance" by Helen Brennan - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... nnpipesobs

PD.

[marcpipes]

If you have the O'Niell book, Higgins Hornpipe is a nice tune and not too difficult to learn.

[meemtp]

Another good one for the pipes that's not too hard is Sonny Murray's I think this is also known as the Wicklow hornpipe.

[malanstevenson]

I don't play many of them, but I love hornpipes because I don't unconsciously feel compelled to play (and thus butcher) them at reel speed, they sound good at a brisk and bouncy pace that allows for the unhurried articulation of ornaments. Sometimes I sort of swing 'em in a kind of syncopated way (my musical vocabulary fails me - like the way Ennis attacks The Pleasures of Hope), depending on tune or mood. Other nice ones are Tomgraney Castle, Chief O'Neill's Favorite, and the Plains of Boyle / Cronin's set.


Cheers,
Mark

[tommykleen]

Did the hornpipes of old, in the hands of the old masters, have a lot more swing to them? (longer on the dotted eighth notes/shorter on the sixteenths)?

It often seems that way.

t

[djm]

I'm pretty sure most people are familiar with the tune, The Sailor's Hornpipe, though it's not part of the Irish tradition (and doesn't sit comfortably on the pipes). It's a good example of just how fast hornpipes can be played at. For myself, I always think of an oom-pah band; that D A, D A, bass line sits comfortably with most hornpipes.

Personal favourite is The Belfast Hornpipe.

djm