Tutors and NPU

[Uilliam]

In the Sept.issue of na Piobaire, Gay is saying that the modern trend of pipers seems to be to learn as many tunes as possible at the expense of techniques,or something like that.This came about because of comments made by the tutors at NPU. I had a wry smile when I read this coz in my experience of Willie Weeks past the trend was for the tutors to cram as many tunes into the week as possible wi 6 tunes seeming to be the average.thats right the tutors were cramming 6 tunes on average to the students. To learn 1 tune would I suggest take a little longer than 1 week to learn...they(the tutors) apparently now are bemoaning reaping the harvest of that seed which they themselves did sow??
There was of course some exceptions to this but I only recall 2 tutors who did not follow this course and concentrated instead solely on techniques.Now I haven't been to the Willie Week for several years as a student, but I am wondering if the same still applies?
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

[brianc]

How long ago are you speaking of where 6 tunes were being taught?

I've been to WCSS only once, some 9 years ago, and recall that only 2 or 3 tunes were used during the week, and it wasn't so much learning the tune but rather learning the structure and the techniques of it.

Is this more of a recent development you're speaking of?

[dyersituations]

I was at Willie Week in summer 2005, and we learning something like 3 tunes a day -- nonstop. It was insane! I only remember one of the tunes anywhere near to completely, and I still forget the turn around of the B-part.

How it works for students who know the system is they write down the ABC after every lesson. I never learned ABC, and don't plan to, so I was left out of the loop. One day I tried translating a ABC tune, but it was useless -- the rhythm in ABC is so odd. (no offense to those using it).

Here (in Portland) the teachers I take from are more technique-oriented, which I enjoy. I don't know most session tunes though...

[Joseph E. Smith]

Cramming tunes is perhaps the most destructive thing I can think of doing to ITM in general and to piping in particular.

[djones]

My wife and I were at Willie Clancy SS this summer. She had 7 tunes in 7 days on fiddle, but had no trouble with it and enjoyed the classes a lot. I took pipe lessons and was very satisfied.

My pipes tutor had us go through a large number of tunes - maybe 6? However, I do not find it having been at the expense of technique at all.

Most tunes included technique new to me in some way. This was because of the method he used. As each one of us tried the tune, those who caught on quickly were offered 2, sometimes 3 variations. I found myself challenged by this tutor and I found the patience required in listening to others learn the tunes a help in memorizing and the commentary on others' errors useful for me. I did not find the large number of tunes a problem since piping technique was a part of every one of them. The tutor was very skilled and I was impressed at the number of variations he could generate.

I recorded the tunes and committed myself to learning them upon my return (even some I didn't care for) for the sake of the technique. Besides, for the expense of a trip overseas, I was determined to master most tunes I was taught. That was to be my "souvenir", since I don't like to buy the usual kind (although I confess really did want one of those football jerseys the kids wear...)

Truth be told, my efforts this past year have been to amass the long repertoire of session tunes played hereabouts. I have made good progress, but it is true that to play up to speed, embellishments are often lost. (For some tunes, I have two versions: my solo version and the simplified session version for speed - I think some folks play too fast at sessions, but that's another story... high speed tunes are rarely very musical... ).

Coming originally from the GHB tradition, where embellishments are mandatory and rigid, I really like the easy-going Irish piping style. However, the NPU magazine article's point is well taken and failing to learn the better techniques of UPs is a mistake I don't intend to make. I guess my point is, if I don't learn it it will be my error, not the tutors I have had so far.

DJones

[Joseph E. Smith]

Sure, we take what we may from a Tionol regardless of how many tunes are thrown at us in how little of a time. Some will recall all but most will most likely not, IMHO.

I fail to understand how the nature, the soul, the very essence of any tune can be taught or learned through the cramming route. It just isn't possible in my way of thinking.

Now, I realize I may be a little too critical of this approach, but my heart tells me otherwise. The music and its soul are paramount.

I don't know most session tunes though...

Sessions are not the end all be all of ITM, they are simply a gathering of friends and musicians bent on having tunes and fun together. Build your playlist of tunes one at a time, and pay special attention to what each tune has to sing.

... edited to add above quote, spaced out doing that before... *sigh*...

[PaisleyBuddy]

In my small experience of willie clancy week and tionols, we spend an hour learning to learn new tunes by ear then forget it an hour later; However I did get to an event where David Quinn taught the class and we knew the tunes before hand that we would be working on. I learnt a lot in that class on technique style, embellishments and variations. I highly recommend this method of learning.

[djm]

There is some value in learning a lot of tunes, in that the more tunes you learn, the more phrases you become familiar with and start to recognize. This, in turn, makes it easier to learn even more tunes.

Personnally, I would rather learn one tune, and go over it in layers, adding techniques along the way. I have not been to WCSS, but I know from weekend workshops that I would much rather walk away with new techniques and how to practise them than just new tunes.

Uilliam has suggested that the teachers are reaping what they have sewn, but I think that NPU is also seeing the results of their own inaction on not standardizing what needs to be taught and how to teach it, at least at beginning and beginning intermediate levels. There are some really knowledgable people out there who not only understand the skills required, but how to teach them, and most importantly, the whys of it. Unfortunately, often little or nothing of this gets passed on beyond one or two generations of classes IMHO.

djm

[Uilliam]

Brian I have a list here from about the same time 1996 which was for a beginners class the tunes from one tutor for 6 days were...12 !! They included 4 reels 2 Hornpipes 2 Slip Jigs 4 Double Jigs
You must have had a progressive tutor.
The trend judging frae recent years does not seem to be any different.
Kenny makes a good point about the tune being almost instantly forgotten if learned at all in the 1st place.
It is better to go in with a tune and then learn techniques on that.Masterclass they call them.I think that is appropriate as ye are trying to master the technique.

Sessions are not the end all be all of ITM, they are simply a gathering of friends and musicians bent on having tunes and fun together. *sigh*...[/size]

I had a lot o fun on Thursday night at the session wi me having a fight wi a so called guitar player /singer ..oh the joy o Glasgow.Kenny and his wife fresh back frae Texas must have been impressed

[itisi]

It's always wonderfull how you get to learn tunes at such events that you, yourself, would never have chosen to learn (at that time).
Then they think it's weird you forget them.

At the last Dutch tionol:

Guest piper: "Will you be taking lessons tomorrow?"
Me: "No thanks, i will be sleeping in tomorrow! "

Ace piper though, that Brian McAodha.

[oliver]

It's always wonderfull how you get to learn tunes at such events that you, yourself, would never have chosen to learn (at that time).

Yes, but I think it's also what makes the lessons interesting, try to get out of the tunes you're used to playing. You need a fresh approach to them if they are the kind you never thought you'd play someday, because you don't like them. For instance, learning to play a tune in A can be challenging technically speaking. So even if you forget the tune, it's no big deal, because at least you can remember the technique used in it. And I also noticed a few years ago that when I learned 1 or 2 tunes at a tionol and forgot them soon after, it was really easy to remember them at a session for instance, because they had been "well" learned. Don't know if that happened to somebody else ?
But I agree, too many tunes + the technique to learn is not great, it's just too many things to do at the same time.

[Pipewort]

Gay McKeon’s point was that tutors had noted an increase in students that only gauged success by the number of tunes learnt, and that these students required tunes (accumulation of) at the expense of learning technique. Gay McKeon also reported the tutors’ view that the students were happy to ignore the finer points of style and technique demonstrated “which define the instrument”.

He makes the same point as Uilliam, and JES.

WCSS is not a ‘tune factory’ in any sense, unless that is you want it to be. My experience has been:

a) Six tunes were given, but to provide A YEARS WORK, and a range of techniques that take a similar time to get anywhere near playing with exactitude.
b) The emphasis then, was on how to decorate and colour each tune, and time given to each student individually to ensure they had a good grasp of what was being shown. The wise student recorded what was shown, and/or wrote the tune out as a further aide memoir, to take home and work further on..
c) The clear purpose was to show the art of the possible (technique and style), that the wise student could then use to apply in tunes already under the fingers, in essence to properly learn the playing of the instrument.

I would suggest that WCSS has ever been thus, and it is certainly the purpose of NPU, IMHO.

For 18 hours of tuition, at a cost of Euros 100/120, ignoring the cost of The Black Stuff and accomodation, very good value for money indeed, as long as you pay attention to what is expected from the effort the tutors put into it themselves.

[Hans-Joerg]

Allow me to add some experience from the German DUPG-tionóls (Where piping-classes and classes for other instruments are run). The pipers learn about one tune a day (averagely, sometimes just one over the whole weekend). Imagine this in a non-piping-class: The attendees would "kill the tutor with a wet towel" (as we say here) and charge their money back.

While listening to a session a friend of mine remarked: "Typical: At particular parts of tunes pipers play "ipettypipettypop" whereas other instruments mostly play "woosh". " Well, pipes (unlike other instruments) allow for mashine-gun-like staccatos. Of course this is not everybody´s taste (and it would be boring) but it is possible and at least a much more "ornamentation-oriented" instrument. I think that most piping-tutors emotionally know and teach this but NPU missed so far to state expressively that pipers are interested in ornamentations and techniques rather than tunes.

Personally, if I wanted to learn tunes, I´d learn O´Neill´s by heart. I´m not that fond of "Mega-sessions" (any more - nobody listenes but everybody joins in immediatly if knowing the tune). I think that it should be written officially somewhere that sessions are but merely a hybrid-culture (but very social and funny though, wouldn´t miss it) that started in the 60s only when music went into pubs, whereas houses only allow for few people playing together.

Cheers,
Hans

[PaisleyBuddy]

I had a lot o fun on Thursday night at the session wi me having a fight wi a so called guitar player /singer ..oh the joy o Glasgow.Kenny and his wife fresh back frae Texas must have been impressed

If I had known the session was at the OK Corral I'd have packed some heat. I'll be back.

[djones]

I've been teaching secondary school for 17 years (French, now History) and teaching GHB piping on the side for 4 or 5. I've learned as a teacher that methods matter.

When teaching GHBs, there is a standard set of études (aka "those damned exercises") that I teach (from an old "Logan's Tutor"). The exercises consist of scales which apply the most common embellishments and phrasings. When I was a kid taking piano lessons, this approach was taken as well: a set of exercises to develop technique irrespective of tune.

Irish piping instruction seems to lack this sort of standard étude (although Mr. Coyne has made some efforts at his web site). I have not looked closely at the popular Heather Clarke tutor book, though. Even the NPU videos teach by tune.

Of course, no one wants to sit around and play scales with triplets for an hour at a time and I'd bet few musicians would want to do that with small groups for whatever money. Maybe part of the trouble is that so many of us take lessons on weekends or week festivals a few times a year instead of an hour a week with a tutor one-on-one. Perhaps the by-tune method is unavoidable. I think the Suzuki method works like this. It seems clear to me, though, that the development of a teaching method that goes beyond teaching by tune would be useful. Up to some imaginative pedagogue at NPU, I guess.

DJones