New pipers---learning to play in tune

patsky · Post by **patsky** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:08 pm

Playing in Tune
By Patrick Sky
4/7/2006
Let’s assume that you have a new chanter and it comes with a reed that, according to the maker, is a good reed. You strap the chanter on and some of the notes are sharp or flat. You then take the chanter to a good piper that you know and he plays the chanter, and it is in perfect pitch. He says that it is a very good chanter and reed. What is wrong? Most likely the problem is your inability to "control" the chanter. A new reed, in most cases, is not going to help you.

I have been playing the pipes for over 30 years and I have never found the perfect chanter/reed combination; that is, a chanter that plays in perfect tune in both octaves with only the slightest change in pressure. When I play my chanter it is in great tune and pitch. When Todd Denman plays my chanter at first it is not in good tune, but after a few minutes it "comes in". Why is that? It is because some of the notes have to be forced to play in tune either by using a different fingering or by increasing or decreasing the pressure. Getting these "wild" notes in tune is what I mean by control. All master pipers know this.

For example, on most chanters the 2nd octave G is flat. I almost always force the note by lifting the chanter and applying more pressure.
Then there is the problem of the first octave E being sharp, and then flat in the 2nd octave. On most chanters one has to place a small piece of tape across the E hole to flatten the first octave and then lift the chanter off of the knee when ever the 2nd octave E is played. This produces an E note with a "whooping" sound; which adds color to the music; listen to Liam O'Flynn—almost all of his 2nd octave E's have a "whoop" sound as he lifts the chanter. That is because Liam's Rowsome chanter is flat in the 2nd octave E.

Next we have the 2nd octave A. If the hole for the A is large enough to produce an on pitch note by lifting the G and F# fingers, then the B will be sharp. Most pipe makers make the 2nd A note slightly flat so that the B will be in pitch. To bring in, and sharpen the A, simply play the A with the G finger down or sometimes with the F# finger down. You just have to practice this fingering until it feels natural.

The problem of the C natural being sharp has to be mastered by keeping your finger in contact with the chanter and "pointing" so that you half hole the C# note. This will produce a nice sliding effect and bring the C note into tune.

Finally, remember that the thumb hole D must be adjusted so that it will play with the same amount of pressure as the 2nd octave E.

As I said in the first paragraph, you must learn to "control" your playing or you will never play in tune. Every chanter is different so try moving your fingering around to locate the proper fingering and pressure of each individual note. By using different fingerings on my Kenna B chanter I can get 3 distinct A notes in the 1st octave (one being on pitch and 2 not on pitch) and the same for the F# in the 1st octave. This will seem like piping hell at first, but after a while you will get used to it and not even think about it.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:20 pm

I haven't got my practice set yet, but I appreciate this advice and will put it in my Tips folder. Thanks! And yes, it does sound like hell. But one step at a time

.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:00 pm

Excellent advice oh Mighty One of Chapel Hill!

myrddinemrys · Post by **myrddinemrys** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:00 pm

thank you for your occasional nuggets o'wisdom!

chanterdan · Post by **chanterdan** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:45 pm

i was just thinking why every reed i make 2nd octave G is always a few cents flat,and now i know iam not the only one. thanks for clearing some things up.you have helped me from going insane

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:10 pm

I have taken the liberty of copying Pat's post to the FAQ FAQ FAQ page... to keep this advice fresh and easily accessable when this thread finally, slowly descends into that place called "Archive Limbo".

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:10 am

Thanks Pat. My pipes are coming this week. This kind of info is invaluable for the clueless like me.

Doc

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:08 pm

Doc Jones wrote:Thanks Pat. My pipes are coming this week. This kind of info is invaluable for the clueless like me.

Doc

It might even be good advice for those who have already been playing for a time!!!

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:53 am

patsky wrote:Playing in Tune
By Patrick Sky
4/7/2006
Let’s assume that you have a new chanter and it comes with a reed that, according to the maker, is a good reed. You strap the chanter on and some of the notes are sharp or flat.......

This brings up a few important points:

All new reeds are subject to breaking-in. Therefore, a nicely tuned new reed will go through changes (requiring adjustments) that a beginner may not be able to assess how much (or how little) to adjust.
What's the cure? buy used well reeded chanters? ask the pipemaker for older reeds? (sell me your favorite used reed for 3 times the cost of a new one?)

Many beginners are not new to music when starting on the pipes. They are probably accustomed to hearing/playing equal temperament instruments. When playing the chanter without drones there is no reference point for what tuning/pitch to achieve. The control adjustments that sounds good to their ears may not be correctly adjusted for playing with drones.

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:26 pm

"The control adjustments that sounds good to their ears may not be correctly adjusted for playing with drones."

that is an invaluable key to alleviating much consternation. while i have always understood the principle behind the initial post (though still trying to master the practice), this is something that didn't hit me until just now when i read it.

...bhuel, is amadán mé ar aon chaoi...

good stuff

phcook · Post by **phcook** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:12 am

Some points are to be explained; for instance:

why is it impossible to get both E in tune? (I suppose some physical explanation is required...)

and if both E can't be played properly in tune, why not get low E in tune, and adapt only high E?

Why do both octave significantly differ? Is it impossible to have low octave in tune, and perhaps add a hole for upper octave that would correct it?

patsky · Post by **patsky** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:52 am

I have a theory concerning the E problem on almost all chanters. Those of us who have pipes have noticed that usually the E in the first octave is sharp and flat in the second octave. Incidentally: the E note is also the weakest note on the old wooden flutes.

It is now pretty much accepted that the Uilleann pipes chanter developed from the Pastoral pipes chanter. The Pastoral pipes chanter is in C with a long foot to get this low C note. The little finger hole is then the D note and the ring finger note is E. With the long foot removed the little finger note is D# and raising the ring finger produces a sharpened E in the first octave, and the 2nd octave E is flat.

I believe the reason for this is that the bottom part of the air column (the foot) is missing. I did an experiment wherein I added a series of tubes to my chanter bottom, progressively flattening the bottom D, finally I hit on a tube that brought the E in both octaves in tune . Of course the chanter was then unplayable because of the very flat D. This gives some credence to my theory.

What is one to do? The answer is that you have to live with it and learn to force the notes in tune; usually with a bit of tape in the first octave and lifting the chanter in the 2nd octave.

All the best,
Pat Sky

Feo · Post by **Feo** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:18 am

Thankyou for these words of wisdom from us self-taught pipers who
often wonder if our chanters were made correctly or if we are just going insane for choosing such an instrument

I had a devil of a time the other night at the very beginning of a session ,trying to stay perfectly in-tune to the Irish harp player next to me ...
took me a few tunes before I got the reed insertion point and elbow/finger control just right to match his harp-strings...once we got in synch, we were off to the races...so alot of the basics ( like having 2 octaves in tune with each other ) taken for granted by other instrumentalists, just don't apply to us Uilleann pipers...We have to work at everything, ha...I didn't know about the e-note -tape trick ... Ive got to try that one !

About the Pastoral pipe .. years ago I got to hear Sam Grier mess
with his pastoral pipes ...he played some nice Scottish tunes on it...
it had a real mellow sound , more like a flat-set uilleann chanter, I suppose... it didn't have the bark of our concert-D chanters

liestman · Post by **liestman** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:58 am

All the above being true, there is also the concern that some chanters are NOT made to play well. I have seen and played many chanters and some of them just should not have been sold in the first place. Some play at way to high a pressure, and some are just plain not in tune no matter what you do. A beginning piper should ALWAYS have a knowledgable, experienced piper try out their chanter before they assume that it is a playable instrument. Yes, you have to play most/all chanters into tune, but there is a point beyond which you should not have to go.

simonknight · Post by **simonknight** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:32 pm

This seems to be a complicated area from my limited experience with the pipes. I have my chanter tuned (with plenty of tape and stuff shoved up it) so that it's reasonably well in tune (with some pressure adjustments) with the drones and regs in both 8ves. This means that it its about 20 cents sharp as you go above G due to the increase in pressure needed. Therefore it wouldn't be in tune with a fixed tuning instrument like the harp (even if it was tuned to a just scale).

I guess the issue is whether the chanter is playable under realistic conditions. My experience of other reed instruments is that notes can be commonly 20c off on even excellent instruments. When things get unplayable it's usually because you're trying to flatten a high note that needs more pressure to get, the adjustment in pressure is too great to manage at speed, or the note stands out becase of weak tone or bad response. I think John makes a good point in that it's especially tough for a UP beginner to figure what's reasonable, especially with all the pitfalls of reed adjustment.

I struggled with a very hard reed when I first started and it caused me to give up for a while.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

New pipers---learning to play in tune

New pipers---learning to play in tune

Re: New pipers---learning to play in tune