Mic for pipes

[azfiddler]

Hi all,

Nice forum here. I am a fiddler in Arizona and play in a Trad Irish band here. We have 6 players and all of us sing as well. That means there are mic stands all over the place. Our uilleann piper is currently using 2 mics, 1 for the chanter and 1 for drones. My question is, can anyone make suggestions as to what would be a good mic set up for the pipes?

I would prefer something small that can be attached to the pipes or clipped on.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Darrin the fiddler

[Tony]

Previous discussions related to your query:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... b83c722e8e
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... b83c722e8e

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... b83c722e8e
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... b83c722e8e

[boyd]

Just resurrecting a topic that only becomes important when you have to amplify your sound.
(A rare event for most of us)

http://www.atfirstlight.net/AT%20FIRST% ... ements.htm

is also of interest for anyone that may be needing to step on to a stage and play their "squeallers" for a bit.
(Not many pipers own their own mics!)
KM58 is fairly standard and likely to be what you would be faced with. So in advance you could direct whoever is doing the sound to look at this link and set you up just like the instructions for John McSherry!!

If its good enough for Mr McSherry.........

Boyd


ps last night I was faced with a single mic and a dodgy stand which slowly sank the mic as the tuneset progressed, I had to follow it downward with my low whistle and for the pipes it kept wanting to sag down onto my right hand, so I was playing the chanter in increasingly more horizontal positions to get away from it.
It wasn't just the stand that had a screw loose by the end of it all

[chris_coreline]

if it were in a studio...

i would want somthing fairley sturdey on the chanter, maby a dynamic... SM58 perhaps
drons and regs deserve somthing a lot warmer C1000 perhaps.
Honestly for a studio i would be tempted just to put some low baffels round the piper and stick somthing expensive in there... maby a sterio pair of somthing expensive! - then EQ the things later only if *absolutly* necissary.

an important caviet is that though i studied music production, i realised fairley quickley that i was awful at it, and focused on composition

[highland-piper]

ps last night I was faced with a single mic and a dodgy stand which slowly sank the mic as the tuneset progressed, I had to follow it downward with my low whistle and for the pipes it kept wanting to sag down onto my right hand, so I was playing the chanter in increasingly more horizontal positions to get away from it.
It wasn't just the stand that had a screw loose by the end of it all

Duct tape will fix that.

You can't go too wrong with an SM58 -- relatively cheap, and generically useful -- if you don't use it for this application you can find something else to do with it. In a studio I'd use condensers though.

[Sandy]

shure ksm 109 is very nice one. Gives a good sound of a chanter and different flutes both at record and in concert.

[straycat82]

Just out of curiosity, who is your piper in AZ?

Johnny
(from AZ)

[eskin]

I like to use an SM58 for the chanter, and an AKG C1000 for the drones.

[Lorenzo]

About a year ago I got a Korg D16XD multitrack digital recorder (16 tracks simultaneous). Dynamic mics are good for live--the ATM63HE is better than the Shure SM58--but I'm really impressed with the AT4033 SE large diaphram condensor mic and the Octova MC 012 in studio for instruments. I'd recommend the AT4033 for bass and baritone drones and Octova for chanter and tenor drone. These mics, unlike the pro tube and ribbon mics are affordable. The Neumanns, like the KM184 are best if you can afford one.

Here's a good site that goes through most of the mic types and their uses, patterns, etc.
http://home.earthlink.net/~rongonz/home ... phone.html

[highland-piper]

I've been pretty happy with the relatively inexpensive studio condensers I've gotten from MXL. The 603s does a good job with any instrument I've tried to record with it. I'm sure there are better microphones available, but for recording on a budget it's pretty decent.

[simonknight]

About a year ago I got a Korg D16XD multitrack digital recorder (16 tracks simultaneous). Dynamic mics are good for live--the ATM63HE is better than the Shure SM58--but I'm really impressed with the AT4033 SE large diaphram condensor mic and the Octova MC 012 in studio for instruments. I'd recommend the AT4033 for bass and baritone drones and Octova for chanter and tenor drone. These mics, unlike the pro tube and ribbon mics are affordable. The Neumanns, like the KM184 are best if you can afford one.

Here's a good site that goes through most of the mic types and their uses, patterns, etc.
http://home.earthlink.net/~rongonz/home ... phone.html

How do you place the mics to get separation between the the drones without breaking the 3 to 1 rule?

[Lorenzo]

Simon, the 4-to-1 isn't a rule for mics per se. It a rule to help keep the bleeding to a minimum between two different musicians. The cardioid pattern needs that much room out front and to the sides. With the upipes you can separate them well enough since the bleeding is not an important issue. During mixdown, you can apply the appropriate eq and bring the highs up and lows down through the inst. mic and visa versa with the other.

I don't have a set of UPs right now, but I ran an older recording though the KORG and was surprised how easy it was to control the tone of each of the three drones, separately, simply with the highs, mids, and lows.

BTW, good microphones make a huge difference, and when applying different effects to make the instrument sound as natural as possible, it's nice to have the higher quality mics. Dynamic mics were very limited during mixdown, so that's why I bought the better ones. I bought a tube mic for $1,000 too but can't tell much difference between it and the AT4033. Like a friend of mine said, who has worked in pro studios a lot...the AT4033 "kicks ass!"

[simonknight]

Simon, the 4-to-1 isn't a rule for mics per se. It a rule to help keep the bleeding to a minimum between two different musicians. The cardioid pattern needs that much room out front and to the sides. With the upipes you can separate them well enough since the bleeding is not an important issue. During mixdown, you can apply the appropriate eq and bring the highs up and lows down through the inst. mic and visa versa with the other.

I think you're confusing some concepts here. The 3 to 1 rule states that two mics picking up close-by sources need to 3 times father apart than they are from the source. This is to minimize phase problems created by the time delay between mics. The 3 to 1 rule can actually work against you if you are worried about bleeding between players, because it forces you have to have more separation between the microphones. If you don't get this right, you need to do a lot of EQ work. I would recommend an XY (coincident) stereo pair if you want a natural sound.

[highland-piper]

So if the one mic was 6 inches from the chanter it should be at least 18" from the one on the drones?

[Lorenzo]

Simon, sorry to confuse. I thought you were actually refering to the 4-to-1 rule mentioned at the bottom of the link I posted above. Yes the 3-to-1 rule would do as you say. With cardioid mics, most of the phasing problems can be avoided by pointing the mics at different angles and mounting them at different levels. With a set of B pipes mic placement shouldn't be a problem if one mic is on the chanter, the other on the drones--opposite sides. Some short D sets might get a little touchy I suppose.