gouges

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:25 am

Hi all...I'm wondering if anybody knows a place online where I can get my hands on in-channel gouges of the sizes appropriate for reedmaking, and what sizes do you recommend. I have the booklet from tim britton and he gives some sizes in there, but I'd like to get a little more input.

thanx

billh · Post by **billh** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:48 am

Ashley Iles seems to be the best maker of ready-ground in-cannel gouges. I use a 3/4" (#5 sweep?) for roughing slips. You may find a second gouge with smaller curvature useful for fine-tuning the tails, unless like me you use a scraper for that purpose.

The "Cillian O'Briain" model gouge that NPU sells is one ground to Cillian's spec by Ashley Isles, and it seems to be a fine tool. I say #5 sweep, above, but that's an estimate, the gouges NPU sells are stamped "CS1".

Bill

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:52 am

Tim Britton has gouges available here: http://www.skep.com/britton/.

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:09 am

Nick Whitmer sells gouges and other reedmaking equipment.

He has two types: 16mm #6 and 25mm #8.

billh · Post by **billh** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:19 am

I just checked my Ashley Iles catalog. If you don't order the specific one from NPU or Cillian O'Briain, it looks like the nearest stock item is the London Pattern Straight Gouge, 3/4" (19mm), #5 sweep. The 5/8" #4 gouge would probably be fine as well. In either case you'll have to special-order the gouge ground in-cannel, so you'll need to contact Ashley Iles directly. The number I have for them is (+44) 1790 763372,
or try sales@ashleyiles.co.uk

I think your best bet for this item might be to order from NPU or Cillian, both of whom probably have it in stock already, ground the way you want it.

Bill

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:35 am

billh wrote:If you don't order the specific one from NPU ... I think your best bet for this item might be to order from NPU ...

I bought an NPU gouge and found it to be very wide. I don't use it at all. I use a #6. In fact, if anyone wants to buy my NPU gouge, make me an offer via PM.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:38 am

Check the archives:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 0be4bc695c

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:47 am

You have to phone Ashley-Isles directly, as the incannel gouges are not listed in their catalogue. Also, you cannot order and give payment details on their web site.

I had ordered one of the Cillian O'Brien gouges from NPU, but they sent me a #3.

No-one agrees on gouge sizes, so you will get lots of controversy on this (what else is new?). Also, since this has come up many times before, you can do a Search to see what others have recommended. Here are some suggestions:

#3 for gouging a sound chamber (if you are using that method)
#6 for gouging concert D
#8 for gouging flat chanters

djm

djm

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:48 am

billh wrote:
I think your best bet for this item might be to order from NPU or Cillian, both of whom probably have it in stock already, ground the way you want it.

Bill

I'd recommend these. Though I believe #4 is the standard (you can use scrapers/sanding blocks to achieve a specific final curvature).

I use #4 for primary gouging and a #5 for tail gouging where appropriate (both have the reprofiled blade that Bill mentioned earlier). I haven't touched my #6 in ages.
I noted a great improvement as soon as I had mine reground.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:57 am

AlanB wrote:
I use #4 for primary gouging and a #5 for tail gouging where appropriate (both have the reprofiled blade that Bill mentioned earlier). I haven't touched my #6 in ages.
I noted a great improvement as soon as I had mine reground.

I also use #4 for initial gouge, and use #6 for the tails/tone chamber. I prefer to sand as little as possible, and then only to smooth down the grain and any deformities (lumps) from gouging. I have yet to try scrapers, but they are most certainly next on my list of new tools to get... probably order some today. Anyone have a schematic for the Benedict Koehler style gouging board? I have returned a borrowed copy of the NPU reedmaking DVD before taking an opportunity to sketch down that device.

billh · Post by **billh** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:09 am

PJ wrote:
billh wrote:If you don't order the specific one from NPU ... I think your best bet for this item might be to order from NPU ...
I bought an NPU gouge and found it to be very wide. I don't use it at all. I use a #6. In fact, if anyone wants to buy my NPU gouge, make me an offer via PM.

Hi PJ:

Yes, I found the NPU gouge wide at first, but I got used to it and now I prefer it. I don't mean to suggest that there's anything wrong with your personal preference, just to note that I initially felt the same way.

The nice thing about the NPU gouge is that it's possible to do without the sandpaper entirely, if your technique is spot-on; the shallow sweep of the gouge seems to match the desired inner radius nearly perfectly, whereas a gouge with more curvature requires multiple passes to carve out the shallow curve. On the other hand, that means that the shallow/wide gouge leaves less room for adjustment and error.

Perhaps this observation will help other new reedmakers with their decision.

Alan, you're probably right about the sweep being #4 - it doesn't seem to say on my gouge (well, it says "CS1" but that doesn't mean anything to me). Lastly, notice that the curvature of a "#4" gouge depends on the width - a narrow #4 has more curvature than a wide #4.

Bill

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:48 pm

billh wrote:The nice thing about the NPU gouge is that it's possible to do without the sandpaper entirely, if your technique is spot-on; the shallow sweep of the gouge seems to match the desired inner radius nearly perfectly, whereas a gouge with more curvature requires multiple passes to carve out the shallow curve. On the other hand, that means that the shallow/wide gouge leaves less room for adjustment and error.

Now that you mention it, I do find myself doing enormous amounts of sanding in order to get the centre of the slip nice and smooth. This is probably because the #6 gouge gets deeper.

I'll give the NPU gouge another go. It's no longer for sale.

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:05 pm

You can order any width from Ashley Iles ( I think). I went from a 3/4" up to a 22m wide #4. I love it for extra the weight and ultimately that little extra control. But if you get 'em straight from AI, you have to find someone to set them as per Cillian O'B/NPU (or not, whatever you fancy).

I am almost a gouge/slip curvature nerd, but it is so important to get that inner curvature right, and if you can get it there with the gouge early on, you then have less work/problem solving and ultimately a greater success rate.

Thing I can't decide on is which I like best with the sanding block/scraper, 70, 76 or 82mm

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:12 pm

Michael Dow carries some and can serve as an advisor on using them!
http://www.archcarving.com/

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:01 pm

AlanB wrote:I am almost a gouge/slip curvature nerd, but it is so important to get that inner curvature right, and if you can get it there with the gouge early on, you then have less work/problem solving and ultimately a greater success rate.

Didn't Leo Rowsome just use a straight razor to make reeds? I heard that somewhere.