Mouth blown UPs

Jack Macleod · Post by **Jack Macleod** » Sun May 22, 2005 9:46 pm

Traditional issues aside, do you think recent developments in moisture control like Ross systems (Highland pipers will know what this is) could allow for mouth blown uilleann pipes?

Jack

IRTradRU? · Post by **IRTradRU?** » Sun May 22, 2005 10:55 pm

If they were mouth-blown pipes, they wouldn't be "uilleann" pipes.

Jack Macleod · Post by **Jack Macleod** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:04 am

I don't disagree with you.

What got me thinking is the picture on the latest issue of The Voice.

http://www.euspba.org/voice.htm

The magazine describes the pipe as a custom built Highland-uilleann hybrid, circa 1960. Uilleann-like chanter, common stock drones. I would love to hear this thing.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:16 am

My guess is that they would resemble the GHB more in tone and volume than UP. I am guessing here, but considering the size of the drones and their subsequent bores, the chanter would need a reed capable of playing 'over' their volume... that, and the fact that they are mouth blown would suggest a reed that would stand up to considerablw moister issues.

IMHO...

IRTradRU? · Post by **IRTradRU?** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:18 am

I'm not finding anything at that link...are you referring to the elderly gent playing the pipes?

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:45 pm

This is the image being referred to.

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:10 pm

Patrick Francis Meagher c.1960 playing his own custon built uilleann/highland bagpipe. Its just a copy of a Brian Boru bagpipe that Henry Stark had made in London.They were made in the key of E as opposed to the traditional key of A.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:13 pm

If they were mouth blown, they really wouldn't be Uilleann anything.

IRTradRU? · Post by **IRTradRU?** » Mon May 23, 2005 9:43 pm

irishpiper wrote:Patrick Francis Meagher c.1960 playing his own custon built uilleann/highland bagpipe. Its just a copy of a Brian Boru bagpipe that Henry Stark had made in London.They were made in the key of E as opposed to the traditional key of A.

In the photo, there are 3 drones.

I had always thought that Boru pipes consisted of 2 drones... ?

But I digress, and agree with Joseph - they aren't uilleann anything.

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:50 am

The two drone pipes are the traditional Irish Warpipes. Brian Boru bagpipes have three drones into one main stock such as the uilleann pipes. The pipes later evolved into having three separate drones like the GHB pipes but instead of having one bass drone, and two tenor drones, the pipes had one bass, one baritone, and one tenor. I agree with guys..they are not uilleann pipes but Stark took the concept of putting all three drones into one main stock, but without the elbow..the pipes are not uilleann..which is Gaelic for elbow.

IRTradRU? · Post by **IRTradRU?** » Tue May 24, 2005 3:06 pm

irishpiper wrote:The two drone pipes are the traditional Irish Warpipes. Brian Boru bagpipes have three drones into one main stock such as the uilleann pipes. The pipes later evolved into having three separate drones like the GHB pipes but instead of having one bass drone, and two tenor drones, the pipes had one bass, one baritone, and one tenor. I agree with guys..they are not uilleann pipes but Stark took the concept of putting all three drones into one main stock, but without the elbow..the pipes are not uilleann..which is Gaelic for elbow.

Hmmm...

you might want to check this out:

The caption says:

The pipers seen during the Great War and
are playing the Brian Boru two drone war pipes. The Irish War Pipes (seen above) or Brian Boru Pipes (i.e., two drone) were on Ordnance issue until the early 1960`s. There was a mix of two drone and Scottish three drone Pipes from about 1945 and 1946.

The first time that the Irish Regimental Pipers were accepted at the Piping school in Edinburgh they had to use the three drone pipes, this was about 1946. Most of the Pipers all came from Ulster and had their own pipes because they played in Civilian bands; they also used the three drone pipes.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue May 24, 2005 3:19 pm

They do look to me to be a merry bunch.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:49 pm

Personally when play GHBs sometimes I prefer 2 Drones it has more Bass this way and takes less air.

What I want to do is plug in a Scottish or Northumbrian D chanter into a set of UPs.

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Tue May 24, 2005 6:36 pm

I believe that the info in the caption is incorrect. Two drone bagpipes are Irish Warpipes. I cant tell from the pic, but they might be playing Brian Boru Chanters. This instrument was designed by William O'Duane and Henry Starck in 1908 and replaced the earlier Dungannon Bagpipes.
The chanter, based on the Highland pattern was made longer and the tone hole arrangement altered to leave the lower hand little finger free to operate the downward extension keywork. The top 'a' tone hole was moved to the front and covered by a key, the top 'g' retuned to 'g#' was moved to the back. Further keywork was added to give semitones as required, the basic scale of the chanter being that of 'A major' as the lower g was also retuned to g#. The open style fingering coupled with alterations to the tuning meant it was not really a practical proposition for the dedicated highland piper. The Brian Boru Irish System Chanter could be supplied with keywork arranged to suit natural fingering in any key signature with several different versions available including one with a thumb hole for the minor third. Up to fourteen keys could be fitted making it fully chromatic from low E to high c#. The drone system used was that of the Dungannon Pipes of Tenor, Baritone and Bass which could be in either a common stock or three separate stocks.

Chris Bayley has some great info on Brian Boru Bagpipes, and Irish Warpipes.

Free Tinker · Post by **Free Tinker** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:14 pm

Just to (hopefully) clarify a couple of points. O'Duane had little or nothing to do with the Brian Boru pipes, as far as anyone knows. They were Starck's project. The two worked together on the earlier Dungannon pipes, whose only thing in common with Boru pipes was the use of keys and their maker (Starck). Otherwise the pitch and set up of their chanters seems very different. The Boru pipes were not really in the "key of E". They were intended to offer chromatic playing possibilities and their lowest note was E, reached through lower keys. The drone set up was A tenor, E baritone and A bass, which, if anything suggests A tonality, as on the Highland pipes. Which leads me to my next point. Someone above mentions "traditional Irish warpipes". Ancient mouthblown Irish piping seems to have "died" somewhere in the 1700's (see Breathnach). The exact nature of the instrument(s) used and playing style is anyone's guess, and yes, something similar to the Scottish Highland pipes is a good one. Which is why revivalists in the early 20th century simply took the Scottish Highland bagpipe and chucked one of the drones. Presto, there's your Irish warpipe. But its a bit of a stretch to view it as the product of an unbroken Irish piping tradition, since the name, the actual playing of it and the two-drone distinction (if we can call it that) from the Highland bagpipe is traceable to a definite group of individuals and point in time in the 20th century. Not to take away anything from Irish GHBpipers or pipeband playing. They've been at it a long time now and there certainly IS a tradition of bagpipe playing in Ireland, if not "traditional Irish warpiping", if you get my drift. Its just that it goes back a hundred years instead of hundreds. And it should be mentioned that Field Marshall Montgomery is one of the best in the world. Sorry for being long winded, but we're like that. Other thoughts?