The outrageous cost of pipes

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:41 pm

morten wrote: And I think the price level for Stradivari and Guarneri's are ridiculous. I mean 3.5 mill $ for a fiddle? I don't think you'll find a 3.5 mill Coyne or Harrington...... :roll:

/Morten

in 400 years? who knows?

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:04 pm

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:15 pm

the problem is, that unlike virtually every other instrument on earth, there lacks a low-range student model.

Obscene antique fiddles aside, my friends' "professional" or orchestral instruments - and I'm talking violin, clarinet, viola, lever harp, trumpet and a few others. Those first "professional" instruments run them $1200 - $3000, roughly equivalent to a Childress class of pipes, but still $800 short of it. The superduper pro models that most bother to get can run $5000-$8000, again, in line with an upper-class of UP. But all those instruments can be bought "in stock."

However, what is lacking is the beginner and intermediate instrument, and I mean a FULL instrument. I'm not talking about a practice set.

I have an intermediate trumpet...very nice, a Getzen. Ran me $600 and change. It wasn't a "practice" trumpet...a bugle with no valves. Violins are made from wood and start (like most of the crappy asian instruments of all types) at $100, but like the others, decent student and intermediate models run $500-$800. They don't come with one string. Harps don't come "student" with levers to be added when one upgrades. clarinets don't come with bare holes and no keywork...neither do student or intermediate flutes.

so, in general, a student model instrument (the kind you see in school bands) runs $100-$200 and decent, playable, intermediate models run $500-$800. THAT is what we're missing. The problem is not that uilleann pipes are overpriced compared to other instruments...the sets made by hand fit right in between $3000-$12000. One would expect as much from a hand made trumpet or violin or clarinet.

What is missing is the student model. The problem is, our equvalent to the $100 chinese or korean violin is a $2000 or $3200 set of pakistani pipes. Would that yamaha could make a brass-and-molded-plastic full set (much akin, in principle, to Daye's pipes) like they do clarinets with all their keywork THEN maybe we wouldn't be comparing apples and oranges...

It wouldn't take much...especially not in this day of CAD programs and molding equipment. Just some reliable plans and the will to rig the machines for them. It wouldn't put a single pipemaker out of business.

Perhaps its an age thing, but the music majors I know who own and play GHB are doing so not because they actually wanted to play GHB...every one wanted to play the UP, but couldn't afford a set, or actually wanted to get it in their hands before completing the second half of their undergrad (oh, what nerve :roll: )

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:20 pm

PS - 'nother teacher here, too...and a Catholic school teacher at that, so take a public school teacher, halve the already pitiful salary and take away the union protecting your underpaid arse from tuition-paying parents who honestly believe that they're paying for their kid to get an A, not for you to teach them anything...

:roll:

myrddinemrys · Post by **myrddinemrys** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:56 pm

ausdag wrote: Instead of lamenting, I've started on the slow train to pipemaker-ness. More pipemakers can only be a good thing. Who knows, prices may start to drop as competition increases.

Please do! I think the tradition of pipemaking needs greater strength these days. I don't have a problem with high costs, but I think each person who is able to, and has the passion, should consider pipemaking.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:04 pm

djm wrote:Hardly a like comparison. Tourism to Ireland has fallen off since 9/11. Even WCSS has noticed the drop in attendees. No wonder the prices have dropped.

I just priced a RT fare through Boston. And then one through NYC. And then one through Atlanta.

The cheapest was $987 for travel in August.

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:38 pm

BrianC wrote:I just priced a RT fare through Boston. And then one through NYC. And then one through Atlanta. The cheapest was $987 for travel in August.

What's that got to do with the price of pipes? Strikes me as quibbling in the wrong direction. I was responding to J Maguire's post of falling airfares.

djm

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:59 pm

djm wrote:What's that got to do with the price of pipes?

About as much as the whole discussion will have on the price of pipes as this market space is purely market-driven. Demand is higher than ever; there are more pipemakers than ever; sales and marketing are easier than ever; sourcing materials is better than ever; worldwide information availability is better than ever.

There will be no decline in pipemaking or pipes sales for quite some time (if ever). Since the market is now global, pipemakers and sales are virtually guaranteed a constant demand from an area where an economy is thriving.

The time curve for an individual piper to acquire that favorite, great instrument is 5-10-15 years. That alone means plenty of secondary sets/items for sale.

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:10 am

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:32 am

yeah, but a big company like yamaha has the experience, teams on payroll, equipment and suppliers it would take to keep cost of production down. I'm sure they pay less for raw materials because of how much they buy, for instance.

true, demand is probably why it hasn't already been done, but there is demand out there...for beginners and experienced players' travel sets. even a single machine turning out UPs could make at tidy sum at $500 or $600 each.

I can't imagine any new piper that would opt for a $600 or $700 practice set when a full set could be had with no wait for the same or less...it also might increase the number of pipers who use the regs when they play. UP without the regs are just an oversized set of smallpipes.

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:31 am

Antaine wrote:it also might increase the number of pipers who use the regs when they play. UP without the regs are just an oversized set of smallpipes.

I disagree. When you can appreciate the Chanter and Drones without regulator accompanyment, and you don't feel the need for there to be any regulator accompanyment, then you are starting to truly attain that sense of one-ness with your music. Regs are nothing more than an added bonus - akin to the foot pedals on a pipe organ. I would much rather hear good, skilled chanter work than anything on regulators. Not that that doesn't mean that I don't like them, or that I don't aspire to play them. I just don't believe they are an equally necessary part of irish piping. Neither do a number of other prominent pipers....apparently, anyway. Hence I judge a player on his or her ability on the chanter and chanter alone. But they do make a set look all that more impressive

Cheers,

DavidG

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:53 am

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:56 am

Patrick D'Arcy wrote:Hello Children,

I think pipemakers should become a religious order and make pipes as a gift to God. Donating these sets to interested congregation members. They would all wear the same gear too. Maybe a nice pair of knickerbockers with ribbons at the knee, a swallow tail coat, silver buckles on their shoes topped off with a Carolina hat? They will be called the Uillucian Monks and carry Bb chanters hung from the shiny brass buckles of their belts for beating unworthy worshipers who wrongfully accepted sets.

Yes, I thus deem it so.

Judge.

I already have a Bb chanter, actually a bit longer than a Bb chanter, hanging from below my belt buckle...oh. Never mind. You meant something else.

Royce

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:04 am

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:37 am

ausdag wrote:
Royce wrote:
I already have a Bb chanter, actually a bit longer than a Bb chanter, hanging from below my belt buckle...oh. Never mind. You meant something else.

Royce
Be a bit thin wouldn't it?/

I'm not going to touch this......er...perhaps I could've selected another way of putting this....

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The outrageous cost of pipes

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