Plastic Chanter Reeds - Any Good?

[mirabai]

You might tell these lads what reeds are like to play in South Central Colorado, San Louis Vally (6700 ft. el.) or Utah where it's high and dry. Questions here have surface about elevation--bellows-barametric pressure and the like.

Barametric pressure is way to big a word for me. What I've noiced seems to have more to do with humidity. It's currently 40% in my house in mid-winter Iowa with forced air heat. The reeds colapse a bit and loose a ltttle of their optimal vibracy. The drone reeds also close down and need to be manually arched. I never use wax or hairs as they they ruin the pitch stability.

I was once stranded for 2 weeks in central Wyoming in July while my broken down van was waiting for a gas filter. Although my reeds prefer 60% humidity, they don't usually die altogether in the dry. This was a bit much though and towards the end of my enforced vacation the reed had totally colapsed and the sides had opened up.

I have no qualms about getting agressive with reviving reeds. Rather than giving up and making a new one I prefer to learn to deal with them; kinda like not believing in divorce, although it takes two to make that one work. Anyhoo, I typically will restore the arch of the lips by inserting a bit of cardstock cut to a taper slightly narrower than the head, indented slightly from the edges and wrap the head in thread forcing the edges around the "template", blowing throught it to humidified it . That revived it suficiently.

I often do a subtler quick fix version on the fly to restore vibrancy by opening the lips with my lefthand thumb and forefinger while pushing into the center with my righthand pinky finger nail, forcing the edges to arch out.

Something like the above is often required n an ongoing basis btu is augmented by putting a teaspoon o fwater into the bellows and shaking it. This might need to be repeated every half hour in some conditions.

Thinkin' about plastic again?

Tim

[djm]

Tim, if the plastic clarinet reed you tried is the one I'm thinking of, there's no way you could make a UP reed from it. It is a kevlar mesh laid down in resins, similar to fiberglass. No wonder you had to work so hard on it.

I don't have the luxury of isolating my pipes in an inner sanctum with perfect humidity, and that would hardly be practical. I'm looking for a solution mainly for my reg reeds, which tend to close up at the least excuse, but ultimately I think we'd all like to have reeds that play on demand, especially when moving from place to place. It amazes me sometimes how reactionary some people get when I suggest a change. I don't intend to threaten anyone, or demand anyone else change their ways.

As for radical treatments for reeds, Cillian O'Briain uses a candle to wax the inner side of the slip before tying the reed-head together. He also thinks a reed should only last six months max. On the other hand, Paddy Moloney used the same Leo Rowsome reed for 17 years until it split in a Toronto winter walking out of the hotel on his way to the gig. This is closer to my experiences. I guess we all have our own ideas of what is right regarding our reeds.

I'll keep looking, thanks.

djm

[Lorenzo]

Thinkin' about plastic again?

Nah, I prefer swamp grass.

That Science News article on synthetic reed material, that first appeared in the Piper's Review about 10 years ago, was one I sent in. Never tried the stuff myself.

More stories from the Rockies?

Keenan played his pipes at a cassino in Las Vegas for two weeks--a year and a half ago during a really dry hot spell.

[Brian Lee]

We've got no fewer than 20 sets playing in and around the Utah area, and it isn't difficult at all to keep them going really. Some are reeded by their makers from all over the world. Others are playing reeds made here. Not really any noteable difference in tone, and some reeds from each camp will play splendedly while others may not.

At any rate, I'm still not convinced that the humidity issue, or altitude, or barametric pressures, or the pahese of the moon and alignment of planets has this catastrophic and deadly effect on up reeds. Yes I do travel with my set (my family is back east and it gets pretty humid at times), and have never found them to be unplayable. They do play differently but nothing that seemed too wild to control. Have I just gotten lucky? Who knows.

At any rate, pipes play just fine here.

[dirk]

My experience in Colorado is more like what Tim has seen. The humidity is currently about 15-20%. I even remember Tim playing in Boulder and pouring some water in his bellows to deal with the dry air. It seemed to work well. Several professional pipers who have played concerts here and gave workshops have verified that their reeds don't play the way they like after a few days. They always leave town to the next gig before the reeds close up completely, though.

Three of the four chanter reeds that I owned that were made outside Colorado completely collapsed after about a month or two here, except one. This one toured Ireland for about eight months in smoky bars, then lived in high-elevation Vail Colorado, where its owner was playing it in the shower room to humidify it. I bought the reed in Vail, brought it down to Boulder and retied the reed, and it is much more stable than any other reed I have played. The only time that reed had trouble is when I brought it to Vermont this summer - during the North Hero festival. The high humidity and sticky-outside air was staggering, and this reed started playing a full step flat. Even so, bringing this reed back to Colorado has restored it, and the reed is remarkably stable for the range of weather in Colorado.

I often wonder if the cigarette smoke might have done something to make this reed less vulnerable to weather changes than the others. It plays pretty much the same no matter what the Colorado weather does.
I just need to avoid playing it outside in the rain during muggy weather in Vermont. By the way, another reed that I bought in Vermont played great in Colorado for about three weeks, during an unusual period of Colorado rain. Then the dry weather came, and the reed collapsed after a month.

The reeds I make here tend to work well, but they really change a lot when the weather gets dry. The humidity can range anywhere from 15% in the winter to about 40-60% in the summer. The thin air here holds a lot less moisture. Like Tim, I'm hoping to find some sort of treatment for cane reeds, so I don't have to mess with plastic. I'm currently repeating the experiment with neatsfoot oil "dipping." Now I'm not very enthusiastic that will work.

I have read that some in Montana have good success by soaking the slips in neatsfoot oil for two weeks before making the reed. Have you tried that, Tim? Also, can you suggest a hard laquer to try? I'm willing to experiment with that.

-Dirk

[Joseph E. Smith]

I'll keep looking, thanks.

djm

Dave, what did you think of the sound sample? Hearing the reed in person makes a bigger difference. It is just a touch quieter than my cane reeds, and it is a bit easier to play...but not too much. The more I think about it, the more I'd be interested in hearing these things work in regulators.

[BigDavy]

Hi Joseph

I liked the sound sample. I think that most players of the pipes would be happy with the sound of your chanter, especially if it got rid of most of the stability problems. Why don't you post a tune on Clips and Snips using it and let people make up thier own minds based on actual evidence.

I have what looks to be the same type of chanter as you and my reed sounds roughly the same as yours (yours is better however, but you have put more work into it).

misterpatrick's comment about the drinking straw reed is correct, at rest the lips are open, they will close under pressure however. The straw reed does sound a little like a sax as well. I know Jim Daily likes cane reeds over the plastic reed, but I liked the sound of the drinking straw reed and that is how I judged it. The only quibble I had with it was the difficulty I had in getting the second octave.

David

[Joseph E. Smith]

Hi Joseph

I liked the sound sample. I think that most players of the pipes would be happy with the sound of your chanter, especially if it got rid of most of the stability problems. Why don't you post a tune on Clips and Snips using it and let people make up thier own minds based on actual evidence.

Hmmmm, I dunno... I'd hate to use Clips and Snips as a 'sounding board' for this particuler reason, being that (in my mind) it is really more for sharing music than sharing my misguided 'evil genious reed experimentation'....which is why I have offered to email the mp3 file to any who are interested in listening to it.

If someone else would like to host it, I'd be game for that... pm me for either.

[mirabai]

DJM,

this stuff wasn't mesh but it did have a stringy grain to it.

There's no reason a reed can't last forever witht proper and frequent tweeking. The longest I've used a reed is 7 years. It's too esy for me to make a new one though. My average is about 2years before I figure I can just take an hour and "ouala!" New reeds have a certain vibrancy that can be hard to maintain over the long haul but we're talkin' subtleties here.

Dirk,

long time no see! (in person) no need for the two weeks and it's more effective to wait 'till it's made to soak it. If you use laquer you need to thin it quite a bit, maybe half polyuerathane and half thinner, so it doesn't just sit on the surface to be primarily wiped off. Also, Watco Danish Oil Finish has been on my mind to try. It's a hardening type and is quite thin. I'll do some expeiments and let you know.(might take a while)

Tim

[djm]

Dave, what did you think of the sound sample?

Sorry, never got it.

Certain pipers may get some relief and satisfaction out of playing plastic UP reeds in the dry winter air, or super humid conditions, but I wouldn't think the satifaction is very deep.

Agreed. They probably won't sound as good, but if its just regs, does it matter as much? The problem isn't the dryness or wetness, but the wild swings back and forth between the two extremes from day to day here.

What often goes unnoticed is someone like Keenan, whose travels put him in some of the most extreme conditions, and he has a reed for every condition (something like 40 reeds in his quiver).

The last time Paddy Keenan was in town here, we, the audience spent forty minutes watching him fight to get a reed going, and then his bag split open. He finally cadged some Vise-Grips from someone in the audience to keep the bag together till the end of the set. He tried to make jokes during the repair, but mostly cursed about how Canadian winters always beats the crap out of his set.

djm

[BigDavy]

Hi Joseph

The mp3 you sent me sounded suspiciously like O'Carolan to me and that falls into the definition of music by my book. Posting a clip of a nice tune would then serve two purposes, there would be a nice tune for people to listen to and a demonstration of a working plastic reed - two for the price of one.

mirabai

Enjoyed your posts - nice to read a long time reedmaker's take on the subject.
Have a look at Jim's website when he posts his reed making method on it you might find it interesting (www.uillean-pipes.com). As an experimenter, he has tried lots of different methods of reed and pipe making to satisfy his curiosity. The cane reed in my best chanter was deep fried in cooking oil prior to being assembled to the staple. It is remarkably stable compared to normal reeds (I am going to get a row from Jim for giving away his secrets). When he told us at his class what he was doing with his reeds (and in some cases chanters) we had a good laugh we thought he was joking at first, but he wasn't and the reeds he produced this way sound good and are remarkably stable.

David

[Joseph E. Smith]

Dave, what did you think of the sound sample?

Sorry, never got it.

I just sent it again. Hope it shows up.

Hi Joseph

The mp3 you sent me sounded suspiciously like O'Carolan to me and that falls into the definition of music by my book. Posting a clip of a nice tune would then serve two purposes, there would be a nice tune for people to listen to and a demonstration of a working plastic reed - two for the price of one.

Not by O'Carrolan, but another blind Harper yes. I sent the edited file to C&S. It was edited to remove 'going up and down the scale' prior to playing the tune.

[djm]

Yup, got it this time. Thx. See my e-mail.

The tune is Tabhair dom do lamh (Give Me Your Hand - not to be confused with I Wanna Hold Your Hand - a common error) by Rory Dal O'Caghan, written about 1603. Bunting gives the story behind the tune in The Ancient Music of Ireland, reprinted by Dover - ISBN: 0-486-41376-4

djm

[Joseph E. Smith]

Yup, got it this time. Thx. See my e-mail.

The tune is Tabhair dom do lamh (Give Me Your Hand - not to be confused with I Wanna Hold Your Hand - a common error)...

...yeah, the Beatles version doesn't even fit into Rory's version..or the other way around..or...oh, never mind....

[mirabai]

deep fried...yikes!

I forgot to metion that the platic reeds can work pretty well in regs; also bronze reeds are getting quite common for regs although I have yet to make one.