pipemaking is easy

[DMQuinn]

I have often wondered if China will enter the uilleann pipes market. That may be a little far-fetched thought but hold on a moment. The country is turning out some very good instruments (as well as some crappy ones, granted). Look at some of the Chinese-manufactured violins. According to some good fiddlers and makers they are turning out very decent instruments at very affordable prices. I wonder what those sets might sell for? And sound like?
Rick

I remember thinking the same thing a couple of year's ago, when Patrick's Obsession Message Board was besieged by Chinese ad-monger's. Their CAD/CAM/CAE driven manufacturing is fully capable of turning out very high quality product's, their tool & die industry turn's out the most sophisticated toy mold's in the world...if American vendor's wouldn't low ball 'em into producing crap. I suspect Chinese pipe's would be inexpensive, cosmetically attractive, almost certainly displace the Pakistani firewood industry...but would bellow like a fat moo cow in heat, due to lack of reed knowledge. The cutsey 4 leaf clover stamped with "Guangdong Heavy Industries" might be a minor turn off, too.

It's highly unlikely that pipes will be made in China. You'd have to have someone who knew how and what technology to transfer, somebody who would be willing to spend time east of Suez (where the best is like the worst), and someone who could communicate with the natives. Too many requirements. Really. What are the chances that you could ever find someone like that?

[reedman]

Peter, I believe its all in the reed, yes the bores and holes have to be correct, even the wood it self gives a set its own sound characteristics, I've made three concert reeds together before, and each one's had its own tonal qualities and sound, even though they were made from the same tube of cane, its amazing how a good reed can make a chanter sing, there are some pipe makers that turn out pritty average stuff , and some turn out flashy looking shight , looks ain't my first preference in a set of pipes, its the way they feel and play, my motto is, there are pipes, and there are "PIPES" but a good reed can make a chanter come to life, you can learn and become a pipemaker in a couple of years if you've got the talent, "But" it takes a life time to learn and become a first class reed maker. there are a lot of top pipers that can't make there reeds and they've been playing for a lot of years, and they can't get it . time for a beer. over and out.

[Cayden]

Ofcourse reeds are important but take the one good reed , put it in a few different chanter and analysing the soundspectrum you'll find (and that has been done ofcourse) that each make has his own specific character. That coyne is specifically different form Egan and that kenna is different fro mthat again while each chanter by the same maker more or less shares that character. It' s the bore and how each maker voiced it, using undercutting, alterations to the taper of the bore in specific places t oadjust certain notes etc, that determines that.

[leremarkable]

DMQuinn wrote;
It's highly unlikely that pipes will be made in China. You'd have to have someone who knew how and what technology to transfer, somebody who would be willing to spend time east of Suez (where the best is like the worst), and someone who could communicate with the natives. Too many requirements. Really. What are the chances that you could ever find someone like that?

Wow, all that? It could never happen, really.

[Calum]

There was an interesting survey of China a month or so ago in the Economist. One thing I came away from it with is a strong impression that someone with a good knowledge of China and Chinese business coud set up an extremely succesful middle-man business.

The OP should be nominated for the troll of the year award - I haven't seen a finer crafted example for some time. Well done, Rory.

Cheers,
Calum

[glauber]

Maybe this will be of interest:
http://www.bagpipeproject.com/tenor_drone.html

It's pictures of the making of a GHP tenor drone, step by step.

g

[Joseph E. Smith]

Pretty cool images Glauber. I have always been fascinated with the manufacture of bagpipes, of any variety. It would be cool to be able to do it. Someday, when I have the resources necessary for all of the equiptment, I may give it a go. In the meantime, I remain content to watch it being done.

[meemtp]

This whole issue is pretty much the same as the arguments made by people about fiddles. Those who don't know better think all you have to do to copy a strad is get some decent wood, saw it up and match the dimensions. Every fiddle made by a craftsman maker has unique graduations of the top, varying thicknesses in the wood etc. The bridge is carved to suit the instrument precisely, and even what type of varnish is used depends on that instrument's unique qualities. The bridge, soundpost and bass bar setup are the fiddle equivalent of reeding a chanter. You have to have the skill, knowledge and the ear to get it right. And I agree, Troll of the year!

Corin

[Islandpiper]

And when you get done with your first couple of sets this week, maybe you can take on the family dental work, after all, the dentist just drills a bit and fills up the empty spots. No problem! (It is amazing how everyone is an expert at everything since the internet was invented((by al gore)). heh heh heh......

And when you start making pipes, please tell us what field you work in, so we can all set up and work in your area....doing your work....as "know it all amateurs".

[uilleannfinlander]

"..pipemaking so easy..... just take some well seasoned , selected and dried
enough old wood, (this is all clear becouse you have been there selecting
woodparts from several different wooddeliveries). You know all the secrets of cutting/treating raw blanks before few yers seosoning/drieing.
Ofcourse you have good tools, reamers are just right dimension, specially
made for you, and you know the sharpening angles for different woodtypes too, no worries. Your lathe and other machines are calibrated this kind special work.
Even reedmaking is piece of cake, you really know the chanter /drones vs
your reed dimensions, and best, you can solve all problems about tonality
and tuning. You have also certain book about wood/different metal thicknesses in several places of your pipes.
Sure you know what glue to use fitting ferrules, dronetops etc.
Metal work is so easy , thatb you can make regulators and other's keywork
sawings hammerings respringing even when sleeping.( Engravings
are just method fancy fingers ).
And after few hours (included tuning too) pipes play as a dream,
so easy no adjustings. You'll be sure that this intsrument will works years
forfard. Why is everybodymake his own pipes becouse this so easy, terrible how those makers take huge money few hours work.
And best of all, all knowhow about pipemaking can be found from internet,
nomore years learning..." Make your pipes your own indeed ,but don't say it SO easy...
As working handengraver and goldsmith now for 20 years I halso have somekind visio what is real artisan work, and pipemaking is that in best possible way included tonality . Pipemakers make" tools" for pipers ,
you can buy certain "sound and tone" you make rest with your own
character and skills. Maybe pipes costs first feels high, but how long good
pipes last... years and years when well made, and how you should pay about 200-300 hours work?

btw. here is one of my works just for fun, Edward II era replica dagger with silver hilt/guard with stones. Bladesmith made steelblade for week, my silverwork stonesetting about 100 hours (weigth 300gr,smokequartz,red granats,jaspis on top.pic. not so good.)All made by hands (respecting artisan work of 1450 era)."Dagger making so easy"
http://kotinetti.suomi.net/sadimi/dagger/

[djm]

Hey, U-Fin, did you do the engraving on your pipes? I would like to see a close-up of the engraving, if you would be so kind.

Thx,

djm

[rorybbellows]

The idea behind this post was not to in anyway diminish the skills needed to make a set of pipes but more to encourage anyone who might want to try pipemaking for themselves ,and not to be put off by people who would discourage you out of some misconception that it is just to difficult.
Mister Finlander points out some of the skills needed to make pipes and then treats them as if they were some kind of impossible tasks . I don,t think he got to make fine daggers with this attitude .

The thing is we all have to start somewhere and even the best makers didn,t start making top quality pipes first go .If you really want to make pipes have a go and good luck to you who can say you could be the next Geoff Whoof
According to Geoff the reason he started making pipes was because his then wife suggested he do so
Luckly for us he didn,t come to this forum saying my wife thinks I should make pipes what do you think ?


RORY

[Paul Reid]

RoryB,

In my opinion, your point is well taken. If someone wants to make pipes, they will need loads of encouragement (and a great deal of discipline, passion and desire to succeed). I think the language used in the pretext of this post is that you seemed to give the "serious" notion that pipe making is easy, which we all fully understand to be a blatant understatement.

Around 1890 to 1910, the piano was being mass produced and it's popularity was enormous. In Ontario, Canada there were dozens of piano manufacturer's that produced beautiful products. Heintzman, Williams & Sons, Mason & Risch, and too many others to mention. One by one they folded and the number of piano manufacturer's now has dwindled to nearly zero. The greatest piano manufacturer's in the world today, including Bösendoerfer, Schimmel, Fazioli, Bechstein and Steinway have remained healthy many decades later and are still in the most expensive category available. Even good ol' Baldwin has been sold to be manufactured in China.

Why?

If you want to compete in this elite and demanding environment, one must provide the highest quality and the notion that it IS the highest quality. Steinway is not my favourite piano by far, but time and again this name is thrown around because of the perception of quality and prestige. I guess my point is this. If you want to be in this (making pipes) for a long time then the focus starting out has to be on not "how easy is this?", but on "how challenging is this going to be in order to make it the best?".

There are no shortcuts.

[Cayden]

The thing is we all have to start somewhere and even the best makers didn,t start making top quality pipes first go .If you really want to make pipes have a go and good luck to you who can say you could be the next Geoff Whoof
According to Geoff the reason he started making pipes was because his then wife suggested he do so
Luckly for us he didn,t come to this forum saying my wife thinks I should make pipes what do you think ?


RORY

Maybe don't ignore in this that Geoff was fully trained as a fitter/turner, he didn't quite start from scratch

[rorybbellows]

The thing is we all have to start somewhere and even the best makers didn,t start making top quality pipes first go .If you really want to make pipes have a go and good luck to you who can say you could be the next Geoff Whoof
According to Geoff the reason he started making pipes was because his then wife suggested he do so
Luckly for us he didn,t come to this forum saying my wife thinks I should make pipes what do you think ?


RORY

Maybe don't ignore in this that Geoff was fully trained as a fitter/turner, he didn't quite start from scratch

why so much negativity
Nobody comes out of the womb a pipemaker

RORY