who are the true heroes of this new age of piping?

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gryffyth
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who are the true heroes of this new age of piping?

Post by gryffyth »

:) Dear UP Community,
I just wanted to take this opportunity to publicly thank Eric Reiswig, who is
a very active member of the British Columbia Uilleann Pipers Society.
I was able to purchase from him, a previously appreciated half set of pipes.
During the investigation / purchase / payment / shipping process, he was very patient and informative with me. Eric is involved with instrument construction, performing, teaching & also has a number of web sites devoted to reedmaking and alternative construction tecniques. This is in keeping with his and the group's philosophy of spreading the gospel according to UP. Indeed, they have a loaner instrument program that helps achieve the same goal. If this is the future of piping, we are in good hands indeed.

The agony & the ecstacy begins,
Gryffyth
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

Welcome to the darker world of the octopus. U-Piper's normally have two sides: the fun helpful side, and the critical no nonsense side (from having been held hostage by the details of piping for so long). So Welcome! (and forgive us inadvance! :D )
gryffyth
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Thanks for the welcome

Post by gryffyth »

:shock: I think you're all helpful, just a little shell (pipe) shocked.

P.S.- If I had a nickle for every Healey i"ve had my head under!

Gryff
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fel bautista
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Post by fel bautista »

3000 mk II or 100-4??
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

I always loved the 100-4 but never had the chance (yet) :D
You gotta love that windshield, and grill.
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Phil Wardle
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Post by Phil Wardle »

Lorenzo wrote:I always loved the 100-4 but never had the chance (yet) :D
You gotta love that windshield, and grill.
Image
Love the Healey look, but I was a Triumph man meself: Tr3 (early one, with the TR2 small grill), Tr4 and a Tr4A.

Fastest tractors ever made! (the engines were modified Ferguson tractor/Vanguard saloon jobbies, heh heh).

Cheers, Phil.
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

Funny, that's what we say about the MGs too..."like working on a tractor." My red 1960 MGA Roadster (below) looks like a lady lying on her side, it's built like a tractor, but the unique cam and exhaust makes it sound like it's from another world.
Image

click here for a real car, made in Sweden...
http://autozine.kyul.net/html/Koenigsegg.htm
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Harry
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Post by Harry »

At the risk of sounding on-topic (if indeed it ever was a topic in relation to it's subject heading), who are the true heroes of this 'new age of piping'? Can someone define this 'new age of piping' in terms of pipers approach to styles (ie. a continuity of style for a new generation? A reinvention of older styles? Both? Dissolution of older styles in favour of a new style... or in favour of little or no style!? Is it not just piping in a new age with pipers doing more or less what they always did with varying success? (ie. utilising all available resources in their own way, or just copying other people quite closely)).

And can we have some more pictures of other off topic phallic objects, the car ones all look the same... I prefer shots of knitting needles, old spools of thread, outmoded haberdashery etc... Would you like to see some of my collection? It's really expensive and impressive.

Regards,

Harry.
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Post by tok »

I would like to see some pics of hat boxes ,, or mabey some pics of some empty , 30 can beer " suitcases " , hey , those things are almost large enough to pack a set of pipes in , once the beer cans are removed .
Lorenzo , I may have been concieved in the back seat of one of those . no , that was the one they wraped around a tree some where in oregon .
:roll:
I think that to answer that question , It may help to look at the past , i.e. markey , rowsome, innis ,o'flynn , ect ,,
tok .
Last edited by tok on Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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eric reiswig
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Post by eric reiswig »

I'm going to respond because that's my name up there. :oops:

I happen to know that Gryffyth got his first set of pipes yesterday, which we all know can do strange things to the mind. :wink: "Welcome to the mad club" is how it was said to me. Certainly the start of a "new age" for anyone! :D

I think anyone is a hero who works to promote pipes and piping in whatever capacity they can. Were it not for the founders of NPU 30-odd years ago, for example, i wonder in what shape the instrument would be today. Ditto for all the pipemakers who've resurrected the craft, and all the players who got us listening. Past and present. I'm sure each of us has a list of folks "without whom" we wouldn't be playing at all. And for each of us, there's a further list of names we'll never know who made their contributions less directly or recently, but no less significantly.

Once we've been smitten by the pipes and piping, i'd like to think most (if not all) of us feel the same responsibility to pass on whatever we can to whomever we can, to contribute in our own way to the continuation of this wonderful instrument and its music. I'm honoured to be named on someone's "list."

Be seeing you,

eric.

ps. Welcome to the mad club, Gryffyth!
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Harry
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Post by Harry »

eric reiswig wrote:
I think anyone is a hero who works to promote pipes and piping in whatever capacity they can. Were it not for the founders of NPU 30-odd years ago, for example, i wonder in what shape the instrument would be today. Ditto for all the pipemakers who've resurrected the craft, and all the players who got us listening. Past and present.
I certainly agree.

The subject header was fairly eyecatching and evocative to me for a couple of reasons. First is that in piping, possibly even more than in the music generally, there were/are so many people working 'behind the scenes' so to speak who are doing so much for the preservation/ continuity of piping information and resources (not only playing or pipe making techniques as rightly mentioned but general history, archive recordings and lore as well), the sort of people whose names may be familiar to some, vaugely familiar to others and unknown to more: Sean Donnelly, Mick O'Connor, Tom Clarke, Terry Moylan, Pat Mitchell, Peter Browne, Reg Hall are a few of the names that spring to mind here in my location. Such people are producing a growing body of archive material, articles, archive programmes, interpretive publications and programmes or classes, in short they are expanding and enriching the resources that the piper has/will have available to him/her. Of course on the most practical level it's more about how we as musicians interpret those resources.

I think that the term 'new age of piping' is an interesting one (and it may well be that I am putting a different meaning on it here than intended by the original poster Eric... but humour me for a moment if you will). I think it is fair to say that generally we are in a new era of piping. Here's how I define what I see (again generally) as a new 'movement' or interrelated set of 'movements' (in the truest sense of the word in that there are changes of direction afoot albeit not entirel co-ordinated ones):

1. The 'internationalisation' of the instrument. On one hand the instrument's popularity has soared worldwide, on the other it has become disassociated to an extent from it's stylistic histories. This is of course as much to do with the pressures of commercialism/ changing popular tastes as it has to do with geography. There is a sort of hobbyist movement emerging internationally where the instrument is being enjoyed on different levels and in different ways, people are being attracted to it for it's relative mechanical complexity as much as for it's tone (something like buying a very complex and expensive Airfix model!) others just enjoy the playing challenge and are happy to be able to play a few tunes and not take it too seriously while socialising a bit. There are as many emerging playing styles (and emerging 'lack of styles') here in Ireland as there are abroad, but I think that the UP's emergence as a 'world bagpipe' (albeit one with recognisably Irish roots) is important in how the instrument is percieved at the very least. Which leads me to...

2. An amalgamation of (or if you like a disregard for/ indifference to) more distinctive classic personal styles and less involvement with developing personal style resulting in more standardisation of playing. Critics of this change might humourously refer to it as the 'Mid-Atlantic Style/s' where the style/s can certainly function for the tunes played in a group or extraneously accompanied context but may not be particularly distinctive, personalised or imaginitive and/or conducive to the instrument played solo in all it's glory (all bits working and being played). I think that it is fair to say that in general earlier generations of pipers had more distinctive styles and a more personalised rapport with their self expression on the instrument, they made their own style on their own terms more if you like, there wasn't such a set idea of 'modern piping style' being presented to (/inflicted on?) them through mass media. Again this has as much to do with changing popular tastes, social factors, commercialism and communication as it has to do with individual musicianship although their ingenuity is still only rarely equalled at best IMHO. Socially there wasn't the same prevailence of large group playing expected in the past, the instrument played solo seems to have been encouraged by it's place of great affection in the Irish psyche. The figure of 'the piper' was a respected (if sometimes quaintly romanticised) single functioning entity.

I think personally that balance is needed in they way that the pipes are approached and promoted in this world were everything is for sale and where art is more widely judged on it's price tag than on it's honesty of expression or singularity. The instrument's popularity is only as valid as the way that it is being played IMHO. The balance as far as I can hear is tipped away from the utilisation of the great stylistic resources that exist AND the idea of the instrument as a thing of great possibilities for personal expression through exploration and development of personal style, traditional style and just as importantly, traditional musicianship. Oddly we don't seem to be using the resources available to us through the growing mediums available to explore style prefering instead to emulate (or just copy, there is a difference I think) one pipers style. It all seems very 'safe'. Technology is only as good as it's user of course, a stack of CD's, the internet, a pipeplaying robot will never replace a headful of tunes and 10, 20, 50 years of learning technique, exploring, enjoying.

I hope that the work being done often selflessly on all fronts of piping research will balance out and will be used widely, that people will retain a value of something other than money on the old and good material and that we will continue to internalise and interpret the great music that went before where the pressures may be to perform to the lowering common denominator or to the latest intellectual fad.

Regards,

Harry.

ps. And yes, it is a bloody mad club. :boggle:
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Uilliam
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Post by Uilliam »

I have a Gallantry Medal :o does that make me a "true hero of this New Age of Piping" :boggle:
Slan go foill
Liam
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djm
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Post by djm »

Harry, that's pretty heavy stuff for first thing Saturday morning. But you bring up something that has weighed a bit on my mind (what's left of it), and that is what I feel to be my own lack of experience and understanding of what is a valid traditional sound or style versus an individual's own interpretation.

Like many others, I am slowly accruing a collection of tapes/CDs of older recordings, and I am certainly hearing many styles of playing, but I'm not sure where these stood at the time of issue. Were these considered radical departures when they were made, or were they staunchly in the centre of accepted traditional styles at that time? Certainly some of these styles would be considered very out of date today, but I'm not sure if they bear resurrection as a way of restating the past for present understanding, or if they should be left to lie.

What I am getting at is that there is little available on-line in the way of explanation of varying personal and regional styles, not so much critiques as guides to understanding and appreciation. You have mentioned several people who are working behind the scenes to promote piping history, but if their works remain as hidden personal collections, or buried in some achive on the other side of the globe, I don't see how this is supposed to help ignorant people such as myself. References to recordings or printed material that is no longer available does nothing to improve my education.

Phil Wardle has offered to gather many disparate bits of info on the making of UPs onto one site, and I think it is a marvelous idea (but a tremendous amount of work he has set himself for). I believe a similar collection on piping tunes and styles, with comparisons, sound clips and explanations, for the purposes of general appreciation and education would also go a long way to enhancing my appreciation and understanding of what has gone before.

djm
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Harry
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Post by Harry »

djm wrote:
Like many others, I am slowly accruing a collection of tapes/CDs of older recordings, and I am certainly hearing many styles of playing, but I'm not sure where these stood at the time of issue. Were these considered radical departures when they were made, or were they staunchly in the centre of accepted traditional styles at that time?


More than likely they were broadly accepted (and indeed celebrated) ways of playing within musical circles. Few or none of the really great players seemed genuinely 'staunch' about accepted traditional style (as 'staunch' as say some of the self appointed gurus of traditional conservatism where so-called regional style= the law. BTW there is no evidence of regional styles in piping). The great older pipers took existing material and technique (often from many different sources) and revitalised it through their own imaginations. This is as much about interpreting existing material as it is about innovating along their own lines (that's real artistic innovation BTW, not just making something sound different because it is profitable or fashionable to do so).
djm wrote:Certainly some of these styles would be considered very out of date today, but I'm not sure if they bear resurrection as a way of restating the past for present understanding, or if they should be left to lie.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that a style should be resurrescted just because it is old ( let's keep in mind though that what's going on in some of the old playing is not always obvious to the modern ear). My point is that there are recordings of style which in their diversity very clearly demonstrate a distinctive personal and expressive approach to the instrument, an approach which I feel is not as present in modern piping. I feel that an understanding of these styles and this personalisation process are a widely untapped resource (and the best practical understanding of it of course would be being able to do it, whether you choose to keep doing it or not). The modern piper then does what the older players did, he or she makes it their own.
djm wrote:What I am getting at is that there is little available on-line in the way of explanation of varying personal and regional styles, not so much critiques as guides to understanding and appreciation. You have mentioned several people who are working behind the scenes to promote piping history, but if their works remain as hidden personal collections, or buried in some achive on the other side of the globe, I don't see how this is supposed to help ignorant people such as myself. References to recordings or printed material that is no longer available does nothing to improve my education.djm
And here we run into the problems of publishing archive material, guides to understanding and appreciation are not really that useful without the it. Publishing it will never be profitable and an interpretive package will probably end up costing more to produce than it will make. There are ideas being looked at here. NPU have stepped in the right direction with their 'Master Pipers' series and the upcoming tome on Seamus Ennis and earlier publications such as The Dance Music of Willie Clancy, the Touhey book and tape etc... Of course once you have some of the recordings the best thing to do is to become your own interpretive device, you listen and try to work out what they are doing for an hour or hours on end as I and many before me did... it all depends on your level of commitment. As I said the technology, and by extension the resource it portrays, is only as useful as how it is used. Ideally you do away with the interpretive device if it has succeded in internalising the ability to interpret into you.

Regards,

Harry.
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Post by djm »

Harry, thanks for your input. As always, I appreciate getting an educated point of view to help me learn. One point I would like to get clarification on:
My point is that there are recordings of style which in their diversity very clearly demonstrate a distinctive personal and expressive approach to the instrument, an approach which I feel is not as present in modern piping.
Okay, they were different as opposed to ... what? That is where I feel my understanding breaks down, and I would like to know what I should compare these pipers' styles against to be able to appreciate what it was that they accomplished.

For example, I can listen to Willie Clancy recordings, and I can study Pat Mitchell's excellent book, but what should I listen to in order to appreciate how what Willie Clancy did was different or remarkable? Should I listen to the ceili band recordings from the 1950s-60s? Then I can say, "Oh, Clancy got rid of the trap drumset." I am being a bit facetious here, of course, just to make my point, but do you get my drift?

I have heard only the piping of the few greats who are constantly recommended, but have no understanding of what their contemporaries sounded like to be able to appreciate the contrasts. That's where I think people who do know this stuff could come to the fore and make the distictions more clear.

e.g. If I walked into a session in Dublin in the 1940s what type of piping would I hear? When Willie Clancy or Séamus Ennis walked in, how great a difference would their style be to what their contemporaries were playing? Would their style blend in, or stand out in sharp contrast? What can I listen to today so that I may get this understanding?

djm
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